[gothic-l] Re: Francisc

[sunnytjatsingh]

Hi Francisc,

"the official historiography in Romania always considered and
considers also now that the identification of Getae with Goths is
totally wrong. I learned in the school some 30 years ago, like all
the school-age children of Romania, that Jordanes was totally wrong
by identifying the Goths with the Getae, basd only on a name
ressemblance. And today the attitude is the same. All the Romanians
learn at school that the Goths, like other nomadic peoples, came and
went, but the ancestors of the Romanians stayed in place. These were
the Thracian Daco-Getae, who became romanized and their descendants
are the Romanians of today.
Now, considering the language: if the Goths were germanized Getae,
there should be some Thracic substratum in Gothic. But, as I already
said, taking appart the Greek-Latin loanwords introduced mostly by
Wulfila himself to render biblical terms, the Gothic language of the
4th century is purely Germanic, with very few (2-3) probably Slavic
words.
The other alternative would be that the Getae were Germanic, fact
which would contradict all the ancient sources that present them as
Thracians."

I think you are grabbing the wrong end of the stick.  I am suggesting
that the Thracian Getae and the Goths (perhaps partly) are both
descended from the Scythians.  The Thracian Getae was probably a very
early offshoot from the Massagetae east of the Caspian.  As Tod
suggests, "Again, when we find the `homage to the sword' performed by
all the Getic races of antiquity in Dacia, on the Baltic, as well as
by the modern Rajput, shall we draw no conclusion from this testimony
of the father of history, who declares that such rites were practiced
on the Jaxartes in the very dawn of knowledge (Tod 1829: 654)?"

As Scythian is a geographical term, the major ethnic component of
Scythians are a people called Getae or Gets or Guts.  Otherwise what
explains the tremendous outspread of tribes, many of which are
located in the routes of migration of Scythians with the denomination
Getae? For example, Getae (a Thracian Tribe), Tyri-Getae (Getae of
the Tyre or Dniester River), Thyssa-Getae (Volga River Getae), Thrysa-
Getae (probably the same as the Thracian Agathyrsi), Massagetae
(Great Getae East of Caspian Sea), Frozen Getae, and Euer-Getae (Good
Getae in Afghanistan).

In my opinion, the classical writers knew that Getae and Scythian
were almost synonymous appellations.  So then what about Goths?  I
will leave it at Tod's comments:

"If we can show the Germans to have been originally Scythae or Goths
(Getes or Jits), a wide field of curiosity and inquiry is open to the
origin of government, manners, etc.; all the antiquities of Europe
will assume a new appearance, and, instead of being traced to the
bands of Germany, as Montesquieu and the greatest writers have
hitherto done, may be followed through long descriptions of the
manners of the Scythians, etc., as given by Herodotus (Tod 1829: 72)."

Tod, J. Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan. Vol. 1. Delhi. Motilal
Banarsidass: 1971, First Published in 1829.

Regards,



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