[gothic-l] Ravi and Sunny

[Andreas Schwarcz]

On 16 Jul 2003 at 9:59, AElfric and Ursula wrote:

> > 
> Indeed, the Storgoticism of Johannes Magnus and Johannes Bureus in the 16th
> century had its beginnings in the 1200s and then was later taken up by the
> Romantics.  But was this movement really so large and widespread that it
> effected so many writers in so many countries?  And why the Goths?

Hello Albareiks,
it was not only the Goths, for Germany  the germanic peoples in general were seen as 
ancestors and the earliest Germans, especially after the rediscovery and publication of 
Tacitus's Germania. Beatus Rhenanus, who published it, wrote: "Ours are the 
triumphs of the Goths, Vandals and Franks." For Germany and France the Franci 
played this role, But the geographic scope of  the Goths from their mythic origin in 
Scandinavia to Poland, the Ucraine, the Balcans, Italy, Gaul and Spain and their 
victories over the Romans made them especially attractive for political identification. 
You will find a quite useful survey of the spread of Gothicism in the first chapter of 
Wolfram's book. 

 
> 
> I would like to ask you, Andreas, from the professional perspective, would
> it be acceptable to go so far as to say that given its widespread
> distribution in Indo-European cultures as a tribal name, that the *Gheud-
> root was likely one of the names that the Proto-Indo-European people called
> themselves?
> 

Form the professional perspective of a historian, not a linguist, I would say that we do 
not haveany  written evidence whatatsoever how and what the Proto-Europeans called 
themselves. So we can only guess. But the probability is high that their self-
denominations followed the global anthropological model of considering only the 
members of their own group as "men" and calling themselves accordingly so.
The proliferation of names following this model discussed in this list is at least an 
indication for your suggestion.

By the way, I looked up the two references given by Sunny in his  mail of yesterday. 
The only B.S. Dhillon I could find in the internet with any serious academic standing is 
a renowned professor for mechanical engineering at Ottawa university,  and Calvin 
Kendall, born in 1883,  was a retired army officer and hobby historian and amateur 
genealogist, who published this book cited by Sunny at the ripe age of 77. I do not 
think that the scientific world lost any possible insights into the history of the Goths by 
not taking Dhillon and Kendall into account up to now as historians or philologists. To 
cite those people on the Goths as a counterweight to the serious scholars cited by 
Francisc Csobor and Dirk Faltin really means "just fun", not a serious discussion even 
among amateurs. I really think you should take up Ravi's suggestion and consider the 
Jat thread closed. And, by the way, apologize to Dr.Faltin. Following this thread as a 
silent observer, I understand his exasperation at the way the discussion developed.

Kind regards
                      Andreas Schwarcz




Ao.Univ.Prof.Dr.Andreas Schwarcz
Institut für österreichische Geschichtsforschung
Universität Wien
Dr.Karl Lueger-Ring 1
A-1010 Wien
Österreich
Tel.0043/1/42-77/272-16
Fax 0043/142-77/92-72



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