[gothic-l] Re: dirk

[sunnytjatsingh]

Hi All, this message was sent to Dirk only - I have included in for 
all to read, please see Dirk's response:

Dear Sunny, ......

Sunny wrote:

> Dear Dirk,
>
> This is my first posting on this site, I was referred to this site 
by
> Ravi.  Please note, I am not here to offend anyone, and nor do I 
have
> any motivation, political or otherwise, other than the striking
> similarities between my people, South Asian Jats, and the Gothic
> people in addition to other tribal groups.
>
> Leaving Christensen aside for a second let us discuss the
> relationship, if any, between the Goths and the Getae.  Keep in mind
> the Thracian Getae are just one component of the Getic nation, who
> probably entered the Balkans at a very early time period.
>
> Let's get started, here are few extracts; your comments will be
> most
> appreciated:
>
> Now Jordanes in his Getica says, "the Getae we have proved in a
> previous passage to be Goths, on the testimony of Orosius Paulus
> (Mierow 1966: 66)."
>
> Wolfram adds, "Still Orosius listed the three wildest Scythian
> peoples of his day: the Alans, Huns, and Goths (Wolfram 1988:
> 28)."
> Thus Orosius identified the Goths with the Scythian Getae, but also
> used the word "Scythian" generically, probably
> geographically, to
> apply to Huns.  Does this not suggest that the Goths came
> from "Scythia" or "Sarmatia" like the Alans?
>

Sunny, the Goths are a Germanic people. We know that they spoke 
Germanic,
that their names were Germanic and that much of their culture was
Germanic. Ancient authors applied lables to different groups based on
their geographic and ethnological knowledge. According to this 
knowledge,
barbarians living north east of the civilised Classical world were 
Scyths.
Hence, they called the Goths Scyths and used naive fold etymology to
identify them with the Getae. However, Getae, where a Thracian people 
and
not a Germanic people.








>
> In his The Germanic Invasions, Lucian Mussett expressed the belief
> that the Goths originated in Scandinavia but borrowed Iranian
> cultural features once they settled in the Black Sea area, these
> features included such components "as mounted combat, items of
> dress
> (the fur robes of the Gothic kings seem to be of an Iranian type),
> and most notably the famous `art of the steppes', whose
> origins were
> Sarmatian and Sassanian (Mussett 1975: 17)." He stated elsewhere
> that, "The Goths became semi-nomadic horsemen, took to wearing
> coats
> of mail and, in the case of kings at least, Iranian costume, to such
> an extent that the Greco-Roman authors frequently confused them with
> the Scythians, or took Alans to be a branch of the Goths (Mussett
> 1975: 36)."  Moreover, earlier he wrote, ".
in the fourth
> century
> there is evidence of intermarriage between the Alans and Goths
> (Mussett 1975: 17)."  Now, this theory of Musset is possible, but
> what would lead a Scandinavian people to intermarry with steppe
> people?  Were the Goths borrowing aspects of Alanic culture or were
> they steppe people themselves?

Firsly, Mussett is obsolete in part. However, Gothic-Germanic culture 
did
mix with Alanic-Sarmatian culture. Eventually part of the Alans were
absorbed by the Goths and the Germanic Vandals. However, this does not
change the fact that the Goths were Germans.  The Goths as such where 
a
large confederation of tribes. Some eastern groups became more like 
steppe
nomads. This included the Greuthungi. The western groups (Vesi, 
Tervingi)
remained more settled agriculturalists. Originally, the Goths who 
likely
emerged from the Wielbark culture in northern Poland were, like all
Germans, farmers and cattle breeders. By the way, the first 
mentioning 
of
the Goths was likely in the form Gotones by Pliny and Tacitus, who 
located
them at the middle Vistula river.

best regards
Dirk




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