[gothic-l] Re: Arianism

[greg scaff]

Hails,
Thanks again to  all.
To add to some of this, I have since read in Lives of the Visigothic Fathers by A.T. Fear, in a footnote on p xii, ( which refers to Gregory of Tours  GC 24 and John of Biclarum Chron. 58,  ) that Goths-I assume Visigoths- referred to their church as the "Catholic" church,  (whatever "catholic=universal  was in Gothic), and the Orthodox as the "Roman" church. Christians of whatever stripe in that time , as Dirk said, were concerned to be the 'one true universal holy church",  that concept was a pervasive value,  so Goths were apparently in step with everyone else, as has been said.
I believe I referred to "the Gothic church" because I wonder about the extant of Arian unity- as in, I gather Goths seemed liberal about where they attended church, but would say, a Greek Arian  have preferred to worship in a church with other Greco-Roman Arians,  while thinking  that "that other Arian church is just for Goths,,,", or would they have mixed in with the Goths on the basis of Arian unity?  If the liturgy was spoken in Gothic,however similar it might be to Orthodox or other Arian services, non-Gothic ( or non-Germanic) Arians might have felt out of place, and gone elsewhere  My famialiarity with modern Christians makes me ponder along these lines.
cheers and thanks,
Graig

Friathwa taujau, ni drauhtinassu

faltin2001 <dirk at smra.co.uk> wrote:
--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...>
wrote:
> >unknown)
> >  > >
> >>  >Hails,
> >>  >   Does anyone know, or have any idea, of what Goths may have
> >called the
> >>  >Arian and Orthodox churches?  Besides "Us" and "Them", I mean.
> >Surely the
> >>  >Gothic church wasn't called "Arian' in ancient times? Or was
it?
> >>  >Thank you all for your input,
> >>  >Graig
> >>
> >>  Surely the Gothic church was known as Arian! After all arianism
> >derives its
> >>  name from Arius... Lets also not forget that in the time of
> >Wulfila, there
> >>  were three different christian movements (Catholicism, Arianism
and
> >Audianism)
> >>  across the Danube, and that was even before the majority of the
> >goths were
> >>  christian. From early on even the common Goth must have known
that
> >there
> >>  were many variteties of christianity, and also which of them he
was
> >converted
> >>  to.
> >>
> >>  /Mikael Bynke
> >>
> >
> >
> >I think it is not quite right to speak of a 'Gothic church'. The
> >Arian church, which as Mikael rightly said derives its name from
the
> >Roman bishop Arius, was also a Roman church. I am not sure if the
> >contemporaries would have really used the term Arian though. Both
> >churches regarded themselves as 'the one and true church' of
course.
> >The Arian church is also known by the name homophysitic church if I
> >remember correctly. In general, the real difference between
Arianism
> >and Catholoicism is marginal.
> >
> >Dirk
> >
>
>
> During the 4th century there were big fights between the Arian and
> the Ortodox churches (The Catholic line I think came later)
>
> During some time the Arian line was the official Roman line.
>
> The difference was documented in the Church meeting in Nicea 325
>
> Tore
> --


Catholic and Orthodox are in this period one and the same thing. The
schism between Catholicism and Orthodoxy was only in the 11th
century. What is important to note that the practical interpretation
of Catholicism is basically identical to Arianism. At the time of
Nicea, the Arian faction lost itself in unimportant detail. In
reality both groups had the same perception only they defined it
slightly differently.

Dirk








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