[gothic-l] Re: Gothic terms

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, matthew carver <me at m...> wrote:
> Hails Dirk-
>
> Thanks for the notes and clarifications.
>
> > I think Gothic 'Harjatuga' is equivalent to Old Saxon 'Haratog,
> > Hartog', i.e. modern German 'Herzog', which means Dux, Duke. The
> > world includes a first element meaning 'army' and a second
element,
> > which is cognate to modern German 'ziehen'.
>
> Sorry I did not clarify this part enough. I was relating an
argument I
> read.
> I think the author of the book was trying to argue that this word
was
> based
> on a Greek form, perhaps strategos (lit. army-leader) which would
have
> been
> borrowed & calqued through a Germanic people, probably Goths, and
thence
> spread in usage. I will locate his argument if you wish. I think
that
> the essence
> of this is to show that such a kind of leader was a newer concept
for
> which
> previous native terms were not seen to be adequate.
>
> -Matthew


Hi Matthew,

no need to provide the reference for this argument. Your message
above clarifies what you meant initially. Thus, while Gothic
Harjatuga is a Germanic word, the concept may have been borrowed from
Greek and translated into Germanic/Gothic. I suppose in order to
establish whether the term was originally Germanic or was borrowed by
the Goths from Greek and than spread northwards is difficult to
establish. Do you happen to know if this word/title was used in all
branches of Germanic? In the area of modern Germany, the title Dux
was used from the 6th century. I.e. Dux Garibald, also the Alamannic
leaders who campaigned in Ostogothic Italy to support the Goths are
refered to as Duces. Howver, the form Dux never entered the German
language and was always refered to as Herzog. Hence, these early
leaders may already have had this title, perhaps even borrowed from
the Goths.

cheers
Dirk






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