[gothic-l] Re: Digest Number 757

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> 
wrote:
> >
> >  > Hi,
> >>
> >>  Concerning Herzog the Swedish equivalent is 'hertig' if that is 
of
> >any
> >>  use.Birger jarl, whose title was jarl, i.e.earl, counted 
himself as
> >dux
> >>  in the 13th c.
> >>  Best
> >>  Ingemar
> >
> >
> >Thanks Ingemar,
> >
> >so I understand that the title of Herzog/Hertig, as Dux was used in
> >Sweden as well. Unless this Swedish nobleman borrowed the title 
from
> >Germany, this might suggest that the term, i.e. the concept was
> >common Germanic and perhaps not borrowed by the Goths from  the
> >Greek. Yet, I think the title Herzog or similar was not used in 
Anglo-
> >Saxon England.
> >
> >cheers
> >Dirk
> >
> 
> Hi!
> 
> The title goes back a long way.
> In the Roman state calendar from about 400 AD there were 25 such 
titleholders.
> 
> In Sweden Magnus Ladulås was the first to have that title.


But Magnus Ladulaas lived in the 13th century, and it seems possible -
 as suggested by others - that the title Hertig/Hertog was borrowed 
from Low German into Swedish. I guess that Nordic titles like Jarl 
were gradually replaced by German titles like Graf and Herzog etc. in 
Sweden from the middle ages onwards. 

The question here is whether the title Herzog/Harjatuga was 
originally adopted by the Goths (perhaps from Greek Strategos) and 
then passed to other Germanic groups as standard translation of Latin 
Dux.

Cheers
Dirk 



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