[gothic-l] Re: Visigoths not "Booted Out"

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor at y...>
wrote:
> Dear Jim,
>
> The freedom of thought that allowed the manifestation of such great
> minds like Averoes happened not in Visigothic Spain, but in the
> Moorish Spain (the Cordoban Caliphate). The name of Averoes
> (not "Avaroes") has nothing to do with "Avar": it is just the
> Latinised form of his Arabic name: Ibn-Rushd (like Avicena from Ibn-
> Sina).
> After the defeat of the Ostrogoths in Italy by the Byzantine, they
> were not simply "booted out" of Italy, just they ceased to exist as
a
> political nation. The Byzantine emperor allowed them to stay in
> Italy, keeping their properties, with the condition to be faithful
to
> the emperor. Some of them remained, and were gradually assimilated
by
> the majoritary Romanic population, leaving some place names in
> Northern Italy and some words in the North-Italian dialects. Others
> took probably refuge in Bavaria, where they were assimilated by the
> local Germanic population. Here the Ostrogothic influence consists
in
> some loanwords in the Bavarian German dialects, but also in their
> strong influence on the Old German epic, with such characters,
found
> in the Niebelungen-lied and connected legends, like Dietrich von
Bern
> (= Theodoric the Great, the most important king of Ostrogoths),
Etzel
> (= Attila, the famous king of the Huns), Odoacher (that one
defeated
> and killed by Theodoric), Krimhild (= Ildiko, the last bride of
> Attila) etc.



Hi Francisc,

this is an interesting theory about Goths fleeing to Bavaria, and it
has been advocated for a long time. The evidence is, however, at best
tentative I think. Recent excavations at the Hemmaberg did reveal an
Arian Gothic church and a Gothic cemetary which attests the presence
of Goths in Old Bavaria. Also, we know of a Herulian leader who later
turned up in the Alps, I think in the Tyrole area if I remember
correctly. However, I doubt that this was a large scale movement. At
best a few individuals may have made their way across the Alps I
think while most would have been content to stay in the country were
they were born - Italy.

The prevalence of Ostrogothic themes in Old High German and Middle
German poetry and ballads is often attributed to the fact that the
Bavarian dukes were closely related to the Langobardic rulers of
Italy. Infact, the most sucessful Langobardic royal house in Italy is
often called the 'Bavarian Dynasty' and we know that Langobards also
settled in Bavaria (near Augsburg for example). The Langobards of
Italy will have absorbed many of the remaining Goths, including their
history and tales, which were thus passed on to the Bavarians, as the
Langobards were gradually shifting to speaking Romanic in the course
of the 7th century. Hence, I that the transmission of the Gothic
tales and tradition to the Old High German literature may have been
indirect through the Langobardic-Bavarian connection.

Cheers
Dirk




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