[gothic-l] Re: Pronouns and other questions

[llama_nom]

> I can't recall _sa_ being applied with the meaning "he" 
> to Jesus in the middle of the narrative of his travels.


...by the narrator, I mean.  Other people do, but that might be 
because they've just started talking about him, or are expressing 
less familiarity: who is that man?  I wonder how Gothic compares 
with modern German on this point.  I think you can use der/die/das 
sometimes where English has he/she/it...

Llama Nom




--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell at o...> wrote:
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "seitokojiro" <MRemick01 at a...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > 1) How do you know whether to use pronouns (like is, ita, si) 
and 
> > their respective demonstrative pronouns (sa, thata, so) when 
> refering 
> > back to someone or something aforementioned? It seems that they 
> are 
> > almost interchangeable sometimes. Is there some circumstance, 
for 
> > example, where 'thai' would be preferable to 'eis', or is it 
> simply a 
> > matter of preference? 
> > 
> 
> Good question.  I'd like to know this too.  Both can translate Gk. 
> autos, so the variation is presumably a feature of Gothic.  Both 
can 
> appear where English has "he".  Sometimes _sa_ looks like it might 
> be a bit more emphatic, while _is_ might imply more familiarity 
with 
> the person on the part of the reader, but other times I can't 
really 
> see the difference.  In the gospel narratives is _sa_ reserved for 
> newly encountered people, or relatively newly mentioned people, do 
> you think?  I can't recall _sa_ being applied with the 
meaning "he" 
> to Jesus in the middle of the narrative of his travels.
> 
> It might be stylistic sometimes though--there might be a grey area 
> in the middle of the Venn diagram of sa/is where either is 
> acceptable--or maybe I just haven't figured it out yet.  Without 
> being able to give any rules, Gothic seems to me similar in this 
way 
> to Old English and Old Norse, both of which can have þæt/þat, etc. 
> in some circumstances where MnE has "it" rather than "that".  But 
> I'd like to know more.
> 
> Mk 1,25 jah andbait ina Iesus qiþands: þahai jah usgagg ut us 
þamma, 
> ahma unhrainja.
> 26 jah tahida ina...jah...usiddja us imma
> 
> Mk 1,30 iþ swaihro Seimonis lag in brinnon: jah suns qeþun ina bi 
> ija.
> 31 jah duatgaggands urraisida þo undgreipands handos izos, jah 
> aflaitot þo so brinnon suns, jah andbahtida im.
> 
> In the first of these examples _þamma_ seems emphatic, but in the 
> second _þo_ no more so than _ija_.  When qualified by an adjective 
> or some qualifying phrase, þai = Gk. hoi, English "those" (þai miþ 
> imma, etc.).
> 
> Llama Nom
> 
> PS. I don´t know if this is useful to you, but you can download 
the 
> Gothis corpus here
> 
> http://www.wulfila.be/gothic/download/





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