[gothic-l] Re: Please & Thank You

Tue Jul 20 16:17:30 UTC 2004

Hails Jim!

Here are some notes on Francisc's suggestions, and how these words 
and phrases are used in the Gothic Bible:

Lk 17,9: iba þank þu fairhaitis skalka jainamma, unte gatawida þatei 
anabudan was? ni man. "Do you offer thanks to that servant just 
because he does what he is told?  I think not."

(The form _þank_ is just an alternate spelling of _þagk_)

Grammar:
THAGK is accusative of THAGKS, and the recipient of the thanks is in 
the dative case.  So to say "I offer thanks to you (singular)": THAGK 
FAIRHAITA THUS.  The verb "awiliudon" also requires dative for the 
recipient, so "I thank you" is AWILIUDO THUS (dative), rather than 
THUK (accusative).  This is to thank a single person - for two people 
it is IGQIS, for more than two IZWIS.

But BIDAI ANAHAITAN, literally "call on with a prayer/request" takes 
accusative for the person being beseeched or called upon.  BIDAI is 
dative, here with an instrumental meaning = "with/using".  (When the 
person is dative, ANAHAITAN has a different meaning: "to rebuke".)

(IK) BIDJA THUK "I ask/beg you" would also make a good way of 
saying "please", and appears lots of times in the Bible.  As you can 
see, BIDJAN takes the accusative case for the person being asked.  If 
you want to ask "for" something with this verb, you would put the 
desired thing into the genitive case, literally "I ask you of..."

Singular: BIDJA THUK - accusative
Dual: BIDJA IGQIS - (the accusative of this pronoun has the same form 
as dative)
Plural: BIDJA IZWIS - accusative same as dative

Another way of being polite in a request is to use the subjunctive 
mood, rather than the imperative, e.g. Lk 8,28: bidja þuk, ni 
balwjais mis "I implore you, please don't torment me".

The imperative is more abrupt, L 5,8: [bidja þuk] usgagg fairra 
mis "please get away from me".

To ask someone to do something you can also use the infinitive, L 
9,38: laisari, bidja þuk insaihvan "teacher, please look".

At 2Cor 8,4 there is the noun USBLOTEINS "entreaty": miþ managai 
usbloteinai bidjandans uns niman anst seina "imploring us with much 
entreaty to receive his grace".  The -EINS ending for abstract nouns 
implies a verb USBLOTJAN, but this is not recorded.  The verb which 
is recorded is BLOTAN, but this means "worship".

To say "no thanks" or "please excuse me" when declining an 
invitation: bidja þuk, habai mik faurqiþanana (Lk 14,18).

LLama Nom

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor at y...> 
wrote:
> Dear Jim,
> 
> I don't understand what you mean by a "modern" Gothic calendar.
> A form of "modern" Gothic could be considered the Crimean Gothic 
> attested in Busbecq's word list of the 16th century, but that list 
> (approx. 80 words and short sentences) doesn't contain anything 
> related to a calendar.
> But there is preserved a short fragment of a Gothic calendar 
> originating from the Ostrogothic Italy (6th century). You can find 
it 
> at the following address:
> http://www.wulfila.be/gothic/text/minora/Kalender.html
> What is remarcable in that calendar is that the month of November, 
> called in Gothic "Naubaimbair" (pronounced [november]), was also 
> called "fruma Juleis" = "first Yule", thus is almost sure that 
> December was *anthar Juleis ("second Yule"). This is an indication 
> that also the Goths had the pagan Germanic holiday of "Yule" (which 
> was reinterpreted by some of the Christianized Germanic peoples 
> as "Christmass").
> As you can see in Koebler's English-Gothic finder
> 
(http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/gotischeswo
> erterbuch/NE-GOT.pdf)
> the noun "thanks" is in Gothic "ansts" or "thagks" (pronounced 
> [thanks]) or "awiliuth", and the verb "to thank" is "awiliudon" 
> or "fairhaitan". The exact equivalent of the English 
> expression "thank you" is in Gothic: awiliudo thuk.
> Regarding equivalents for English "please", the following Gothic 
> verbs or expressions could be taken into consideration:
> bidai anahaitan "to request, to demand"
> bidan "to ask for, to beseech"
> bidjan "to pray, beseech, request, entreat, ask for, ask a favour"
> gabidjan "to say a prayer, pray, request"
> usblotan "to pray, adjure, implore, supplicate"
> It seems that the most appropriate would be the verb "bidjan", 
which 
> looks as an almost exact equivalent of the German verb "bitten".
> Thus "please" = German "bitte" = Gothic "bidja".
> 
> With best regards,
> Francisc
> 
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, James Young <daddio52 at s...> wrote:
> > Francisco,
> >  
> > Please, your answer to Fredrik was so thorough, mabe you can help 
> me.
> >  
> > What do you know about Gothic calendars, historical (4th or 5th C 
> CE) and/or modern? And, as Mother always insisted, how do I 
> say "please" and "thank-you"?
> >  
> > Thank-you.
> >  
> > Jim
> >

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