[gothic-l] Re: Baltic Amber

[Ingemar Nordgren]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, James Young <daddio52 at s...> wrote:

Hi Jim,


> Somebody from one of Hermanric's vassal states murdered him, right?

No, he did in fact commit suicide and it is supposed to possibly have
been an odinistic king's sacrifice. The last however  are just
speculations.

 >Athanaric runs to Constantinople where he gets murdered. 

When the main body of the Vesi Tervingi cross the limes in 376
Athanarik and his kunja/tribe remains in Gutþiuða. Later he is
accepted to come to Constantinople with his houshold but dies of
sickness there.

>There is another reference to Athanaric as a short term leader of the
>Visigoths in Moetia after Fritigern dies, but before Alaric. I don't
>know if that is the same guy.

I dare not say on straight arm.

> The idea of kings is more of an eastern philosophy while in the west
>elected judges still ruled smaller groups of communities.

The idea of kings is also ancient Germanic tradition but those kings
were sacral kings. Athanaric fullfilled in practice the functions of a
sacral king but was not named king/Þiuðans but kindins. He however was
like the other tribal chiefs a reiks/tribal king/kuningaz.

 >Alaric is I think the first king of the Visigoths and he is from the
>Balthus family who's royalty, like the Amani family (Hermanric, et
al) >is from the east Fritigern and Athanaric are great western
leaders at >thi time of hermanric, but they weren't kings.

Alaric is a king of the Roman type, a reiks like the former tribal
leaders, but now the tribe was regarded the whole people. Reiks is rex!
Ermanarik is claimed to be an Amal by Jordanes and  this ancestry
dissappears into the unknown in the book.

Fritigern is after the crossing sometimes titulated dux I recall but
in fact he was a reiks and Athanarik was a kindins( by the Romans
called judge).

Best
Ingemar



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