[gothic-l] Re: Please, thank you, excuse me, you're welcome

Sun Jul 25 18:51:07 UTC 2004

Bidja thuk,

Ni balwjais mis. I'm pedalling as fast as I can.

Awiliudu Thus (Are you sure this is not some "Dizzle-wizzle" game?),

Jim

llama_nom <penterakt at fsmail.net> wrote:

Hails Fredrik & Jim,

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts at h...> wrote:
> So, if I ask for something and will end it with 'please' I should
> say 'bidja'. And when i get it i should say 'awiliudo thuk'. But
then
> when he will answer me 'you're welcome', how is that said?

Fredrik: Please = BIDJA THUK, probably before the request.  Thanks =
AWILIUDO THUS, rather than AWILIUDO THUK - see my earlier post (7784
Re: Please & thank you (Or check the end of this message)).  Some
possibilities for "you're welcome":

NI WAIHT IST - "it's nothing"
NI WAIHT WUKTHRAIS IST - "it doesn't matter" (literally: "it's
nothing of importance")

Jim wrote:
>Thagks to you Francisco,

I was going to go with "andhaitan" and "bida." Galeika your selection
better.
Bida, arman my mistakes.

Andhaitan you again,

Jim: The ending -an in the word ANAHAITAN is the infinitive
inflection.  This is how verbs are usually listed in the dictionary,
it means "to call on".  To say "I call on" you have to replace -an
with the first person singular ending, which with this type of verb
makes: ANAHAITA.

The phrase Francisc mentioned was BIDAI ANAHAITAN - "to implore, call
on with a request/prayer".  So if you want to say "I implore you",
that would be: BIDAI ANAHAITA THUK.  But watch out: ANDHAITAN (with a
D instead of an A) is actually a different verb which means "to
acknowledge, to honour, to praise"...

ARMAI MIK! = "have pity on me"
FRAUJA ARMAIS = "lord have mercy" (this phrase is actually recorded,
in various corrupted forms, as a prayer of the Vandal priests in
Africa)

Other useful phrases:

AFLET MIS - "excuse me, forgive me"
BIDJA THUK, AFLET MIS THATEI AIRZEIS SIJAU - "please excuse my
mistakes" (literally: "I ask you, let me off in that I might be
mistaken".  Compare the Lord's Prayer: aflet uns thatei skulans
sijaima "let us off, if we are debters")
ARMAI MIK THATEI AIRZEIS SIJAU - same idea, literally: "take pity on
me if I'm mistaken"
AFLET MIS FRAWAURHTINS MEINOS - forgive me my sins
IDREIGO MIK - "sorry" (literally, "I repent myself")
THANK YOU AGAIN - awiliudo thus aftra

And to say "I like", Gothic uses impersonal constructions like
English "it pleases me" or German "es gefaellt mir", for example:

GALEIKAIDA IN THAMMA - I like that (literally: I am pleased in that)
THATA MIS GALEIKAITH - I like it (That is pleasing to me)

Llama Nom

-----------------------------------------------
>Hails Jim!

>Here are some notes on Francisc's suggestions, and how these words
and phrases are used in the Gothic Bible:

>Lk 17,9: iba thank thu fairhaitis skalka jainamma, unte gatawida
thatei anabudan was? ni man. "Do you offer thanks to that servant just
because he does what he is told? I think not."

>(The form _thank_ is just an alternate spelling of _thagk_)

>Grammar:
>THAGK is accusative of THAGKS, and the recipient of the thanks is in
the dative case. So to say "I offer thanks to you (singular)": THAGK
FAIRHAITA THUS. The verb "awiliudon" also requires dative for the
recipient, so "I thank you" is AWILIUDO THUS (dative), rather than
THUK (accusative). This is to thank a single person - for two people
it is IGQIS, for more than two IZWIS.

>But BIDAI ANAHAITAN, literally "call on with a prayer/request" takes
accusative for the person being beseeched or called upon. BIDAI is
dative, here with an instrumental meaning = "with/using". (When the
person is dative, ANAHAITAN has a different meaning: "to rebuke".)

>(IK) BIDJA THUK "I ask/beg you" would also make a good way of
saying "please", and appears lots of times in the Bible. As you can
see, BIDJAN takes the accusative case for the person being asked. If
you want to ask "for" something with this verb, you would put the
desired thing into the genitive case, literally "I ask you of..."

>Singular: BIDJA THUK - accusative
Dual: BIDJA IGQIS - (the accusative of this pronoun has the same form
as dative)
Plural: BIDJA IZWIS - accusative same as dative

>Another way of being polite in a request is to use the subjunctive
mood, rather than the imperative, e.g. Lk 8,28: bidja thuk, ni
balwjais mis "I implore you, please don't torment me".

>The imperative is more abrupt, L 5,8: [bidja thuk] usgagg fairra
mis "please get away from me".

>To ask someone to do something you can also use the infinitive, L
9,38: laisari, bidja thuk insaihvan "teacher, please look".

>At 2Cor 8,4 there is the noun USBLOTEINS "entreaty": mith managai
usbloteinai bidjandans uns niman anst seina "imploring us with much
entreaty to receive his grace". The -EINS ending for abstract nouns
implies a verb USBLOTJAN, but this is not recorded. The verb which
is recorded is BLOTAN, but this means "worship".

>To say "no thanks" or "please excuse me" when declining an
invitation: bidja thuk, habai mik faurqithanana (Lk 14,18).

>LLama Nom

> >

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