[gothic-l] Re: Gothic identity

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar at n...> 
wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dirk,
> You wrote:
> 
> "The very name of the Goths seemed to have faded into the background
> in the course of the 4th century and the various new tribal groups 
in
> that regions preferred names like Vesi, Terwingi, Taifali, Greutungi
> etc."
> 
> 
> How comes you know these are NEW tribal groups? The Goths of course
> allways were divided in tribes. 



Hi Ingemar,

Of course there is no certainty, but none of these names are attested 
prior to the 3rd/4th century thus in this sense they are 'new' 
additions to the ethnography when they first appear. In the same 
sense the term Franks is usually regardes as new name, although we 
cannot be sure if one small subgroups used the name earlier. 
However, appart from this I think these names and tribes are indeed 
new creations/developments when they first appear, but again there is 
no real certainty.

I think that the idea about Tervingi and Greutungi being analogue to 
Drevliane and Poliane has something going for it. About the Taifali, 
I think that they were indeed an eastern horse nomadic tribe. Taifa 
means simply 'tribe' in Bulgarian and I think and the word may be of 
turkic or so origin. 


Cheers
Dirk 









'Tribe' is called kunja or kuni in 
> Dacia. There are a lot of people having worked with these names and
> been able to show similarities both in e.g. Balticum and 
Scandinavia,
> but so there is of course also Hachmann who means the Tervingi 
should
> be the wood-people and named in the Pontic basin. Svennung has a
> distinct idea of a lot of these names and Wolfram regards Tervingi 
as
> an old name.I think Heather will place the Taifali as a Wielbark-
tribe
> in opposition to Wolfram who sees it as an eastern rider-people of
> Asiatic origin. What you have is a set of opposing ideas and no 
base 
> claiming  these tribes for new. Wenskus straight off says that the 
> great migration did not take place in one body under a þiudans but
> under a number of various tribal kuningaz -reiks.These tribes must
> have had names of course even if they all were Goths. The Greutungi
> e.g. just happened to be the biggest tribe among the Ostrogoths.
> 
> This is no general criticisme of what you wrote but just a friendly
> remark.
> 
> Best greetings
> Ingemar



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