[gothic-l] Re: fairhwus + Greutingi + Gothic loans in Polish

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor at y...> 
wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> What is more remarkable from my pint of view, in Czarnecki's 
article, 
> is the attempt to derive the modern Polish place name Gdansk from 
> a "weichselgothisch" (Vistula-Gothic)*gudiscandja or *gutiskandja. 
> This proposed etymology falls under the cathegory of possible 
> borrowings from Gothic ("mögliche Entlehnungsfälle"), thus more 
> plausible than Grudziadz < *Ghraudingos.
> This would be thus an attempt to locate the 
> (legendary?) "Gothiscandza" of Jordanes that, according to his 
Getica 
> (IV, 25), must have been somewhere on the southern shore of the 
> Baltic Sea, where also the modern city of Gdansk is located.
> 
> Generally speaking about Czarnecki's article, excepting the place 
> names, all the other Gothic (or, more generally, Germanic) 
loanwords 
> in Polish are found also in other Slavic languages, being in fact 
> borrowings from Gothic or some other old Germanic dialect into 
Common 
> Slavic. Very interesting the attempt to identify three layers of 
> Gothic loanwords into Polish (in fact, Slavic):
> 1. Early Gothic ("frühgotische") or Vistula-Gothic 
> ("weichselgotische"), approx. AD 0-200
> 2. Proper Gothic ("eigentliche gotische") or Steppe Gothic 
> ("steppengotische"), approx. AD 200-400
> 3. Late Gothic ("spätgotische") or Balkan-Gothic 
("balkangotische"), 
> aprrox. AD 400-600.
> I don't understand why just the "Steppe Gothic" (spoken by the 
Goths 
> in the steppes at the Black Sea between approx. 200-400 AD) is 
> considered to be "Proper Gothic". Probably because of the fact that 
> in the Balkans the Gothic language begun to be submitted to Romanic 
> influence. In any case, this "Late Gothic" was spoken not only in 
the 
> Balkans (apparently until the 9th or 10th century in some 
locations), 





Hi Francics,

what is the evidence for Gothic being spoken in some parts of the 
Balkans int he 9th and 10th century? The records of the Bavarian 
mission to the Balkan do mention Gepids in that area, but give no 
indication as to their language.










> but for sure also in the Ostrogothic Italy (where the extant copies 
> of the Codex Argenteus and Skeireins were made and where the deeds 
of 
> Arezzo and Naples were issued)




But these all date to no later than about 555AD, by which time Gothic 
died out in Italy or merged with Langobardic.








 and, for some time, also in the 
> Visigothic Spain (although I don't know of much concrete evidence 
for 
> the use of the Gothic language there;



Not surprising, since the Visigoths in Spain dropped their Gothic 
language likely before the middle of the 6th century, in fact it was 
likely already in decline when the Goths arrived theie after their 
defeat in 507AD. The Frankish 'tabula gentes' (ca. 550AD) calls the 
Visigoths the 'Latin speaking Goths' to distinguish them from the 
Ostrogoths.  







 but we have evidence for its 
> use in the Alano-Vandalic North Africa!).
> 


Yes, but only a couple of words dated to the late 5th/early 6th 
century.

Cheers
Dirk



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