[gothic-l] Re: Hairus in diminutive

[John Stewart]

In the 1980s I knew some German girls who had a sister named 'Michelle'.
Their nickname for her was 'Chellila'. Don't know if it was the -ila
diminutive in this case, or just a sing-songy invention of their own. (for
whatever that's worth)

John Stewart


llama_nom <penterakt at fsmail.net> schrieb:

> Hi Troels,
>
>
> > In 462 AD the personal name Herila was attested in Rome, and Herilo
> > was an Alamanic name. In the region where the Heruls settled in the
> > 5th century the names Herilungoburg and Herilungevelde were
> attested
> > in 832 AD - at a time when nobody knew that "ila" derived from a
> > diminutive suffix.
>
>
> Well, I wouldn't want to speculate what "nobody knew" in 832.  Aside
> from Gothic, doesn't the suffix survive even now in especially
> Alemannic and Bavarian dialects of German?  But it's interesting to
> see these names with the <h>.  The town/stronghold and the field of
> the Herilings.
>
>
>
> > In Widsith Herelingas was presented as the name of
> > a dynasty or the Harlungen Twins (probably Heruls according to
> > Wolfram).
>
>
>
> This connection is solid: Harlungs = Herelingas.  The line with
> Herelingas comes right before the line naming Emerca & Fridla, whose
> names appear in German form as the ill-fated nephews of Ermanric.
> The connection to the Eruli has been argued, but for a different
> opinion, see Chambers (Widsith, p. 31, n3): "The Harlungs cannot be
> derived from the Heruli as suggested by Grimm...  Harlung and Erl are
> too different linguistically to be easily identified, and there is no
> evidence demanding such an identification."
>
> Aside from the initial [h] in Herelingas/Harlungen, there is the
> problem of the root vowel.  The German form suggests an etymology:
> Hari- > OE Here, rather than being related to the Gothic word for
> sword.  The name Herila you mention is unlikely to have been
> influenced by palatal mutation.
>
> Not an etymological connection, but there are similarly named twin
> witch-kings in Hrómundar saga Gripssonar, the Haldingjar - and of
> course the famous Haddingjar in various Norse sources = the Vandal
> Astingi (*Hazdiggos), descended from the twins Raos & Rapt.
>
>
>
> > These names indicate that the name "Herila" existed in the
> > surroundings of the Eastern Heruls around the 5th century. Though
> we
> > cannot be sure of anything, this name is very close to "*Hairu(i)
> la",
> > but it is also very close to "Erila(R)" (450-550 AD) - actually it
> is
> > very close to be an attestation of a missing link at the right time
> > and place.
> >
> > If we assume that "ErilaR" became "Iarl"/"Jarl" the "I"/"J" might
> > indicate that there also in "ErilaR" was a faint sound before
> > the "e"/"ae"/"ai".
>
>
>
> The change from short [e] to [ja] is a regular development in Norse,
> except where [u] follows in the second syllable, in which case the
> change is to [jö].
>
>
>
> > The Heruls had no written language themselves, but their name was
> in
> > different times attested in Greek, Latin, Austrian Clerical Latin,
> > Old English and Old Norse.
> >
> > This does not prove that it is the same name, but is there any
> reason
> > to expect more similarity in spelling in the different countries
> than
> > the above?
> >
> > Troels
>
>
> I guess the difficult thing is to establish a connection between
> Germanic names with initial <h> and the Germanic names/words
> without.  This is not a normal sound change.  Unfortunately, the
> Latin spellings with & without <h> can't really show which was the
> true name of the Heruli/Eruli.  The usual candidate is Eruli, but if
> this assumption is wrong, maybe the tribe and/or the individuals'
> names recorded by the Romans were based on the heru- 'sword'
> etymology you suggest.  Which is an interesting idea.  But in that
> case, the connection with the Herelingas/Harlungen looks doubtful
> (*Harilingoz?), as does the connection with eorl, jarl, erilaR.  Just
> my thought at the moment.  Unless there was some complicated
> borrowing back and forth between Roman and Germanic to account for
> all the anomalies?  But I haven't studied the history in any depth,
> so I could be missing something.
>
> Llama Nom
>
>
>
>
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--
Dr John Stewart, BA, MA
Institut für Übersetzen und Dolmetschen
Universität Heidelberg
Plöck 57-a
69117 Heidelberg







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