[gothic-l] Re: International

[llama_nom]

Hails Fredrik!

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts at h...> wrote:
> Would you mind if I add your versions to a website I have?
> I've already done it, but if you do mind I'll delete them as fast a
I
> can.
> You may see them at
> www.geocities.com/worldmarxism/intairnatsjonalo/index.html


No problem, that's okay.  I think version 3 is probably best though,
as it has the right number of syllables, and sticks closest to the
meaning of other translations.  Also, I reckon it's clearer with no
comma at the end of the penultimate line of the refrain: laistoth
gawidan "succeeds in joining".  Or: Alathiudaliuth maisto / gawidith
alamans "the great international song joins all human kind".



> > Good thinking.  You're probably right about GODANA DAG, a version
> of
> > which is actually attested in Crimean Gothic: knauen tag.  How
> > accurately this represents the pronunciation is unclear, but it
> > certainly suggests an accusative as in modern German.


> 'Godana dag' is strong inflection. Why not the weak instead?


> >  Maybe the full
> > unstated wish would be: habais godana dag 'may you have a good
> day',
> > with the subjunctive (which happens to have to same form as the
> > indicative with HABAN).


> I guess that's a bit of the answer of my previous question. But if
> you use the word 'ains', like habais ainana godan dag, would that
be
> better? Maybe the usage of ains isn't that common.


AINS is used much less than the indefinite article in English, and
usually has a different, more emphatic sense.  The Gothic words SUMS
and AINS can be used interchangably to mean "one" or "some" or "a
certain..."  Like other indefinite and negative pronouns, they often
govern the (partitive) genitive plural: SUMS MANNE, AINS
MANNE "someone, a certain person", literally "one of people".  AINS
or SUMS might be used to introduce a character in a story or parable,
but most of the time the English (or Swedish) indefinite article
would be left untranslated in Gothic.

My feeling is that a phrase like: GODANA DAG would be indefinite, as
in English "have a nice day!", hence the strong inflection.  The weak
inflection implies definiteness, THANA GODAN DAG "the good day", that
is: a particular day that has already been mentioned as being good.
Weak adjectives usually accompany the demonstrative / definite
article SA/THATA/SO, though can occur with no article, also implying
definiteness.  But they weren't used after indefinite pronouns like
AINS, etc.



> Did they use haban + infinitive to make future tense?
> I wondered that in your version of internationale.
> "...habam wairthan all".
> Can I not use skulan to make future tense? or is that more
like 'must
> do' / 'have to do', instead of 'will do' / 'are going to do'.


The future tense is often not marked.  Present forms can refer to
present or future.  Where it is necessary to indicate future tense,
there are three verbs that can be used with infinitives: HABAN 'have,
will', DUGINNAN 'begin, will' and SKULAN 'must, will'.  Yes, you can
use SKULAN with the meaning 'will do'.  It's probably more common as
an auxiliary than the other two.  Whether it means 'must' or 'will'
depends on context.  I picked HABAN just to avoid that ambiguity.
Incidentaly, I've also found the past of HABAN used a few times to
indicate the Future in the Past, e.g. J 6,71: SA AUK HABAIDA INA
GALEWJAN "for he was going to betray him", "for he would betray him".


Gawairthi,

Llama Nom



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/wWMplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/