Antes?

[Michal Cigan]

Zdravim,
  
  As I know, Antes is etonymum of iranian origin, but who  knows...(germanic etymology introduced here is quite interesting) They  probably was a gens consisting of iranian and slavic element - probably  iranian, later slavised nobility  and slavic substart of  "commons". One of their leaders called Boz is mentioned also in The Lay  of The Warhost of Igor (Slovo o polku Igorevem - 12. ct.) -  whit  slavic "etnicity". They where finally eliminated probably by Avars,  when they penetrated into carpathian basin - Antes dwelled in those  times probably on the eastern roots of the eastern (romanian) part of  Carpathian mountains. Anyway, Antes are generaly considered as one of  the early mediaval slavic gentes - at least by slavic archeology and  history.

  
  Michal
ualarauans <ualarauans at yahoo.com> wrote:                                                  Hails, Mixael!
  
  --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Michael Erwin <merwin at ...> wrote:
  >
  > I'm not convinced 'Antes' is an ethnonym. The name comes from  
  > Jordanes, after all.
  > 
  > If the root is Gothic, any Ans- Ant- or Anth- could yield 'Antes' 
  in  
  > transliteration.
  > 
  > If the root is not Gothic, some other forms might also do so.
  > 
  > (Ni quotha inuh Gutrazda ei meljo in razdai mainon)
  >
  
  At first I too had doubts if it were not another Gothic word left 
  untranslated in Getica, but note that, besides Jordanes, Antes are 
  mentioned by Procopius of Caesarea (hYPER TWN POLEMWN LOGOI, V.27.2 
  et passim, especially a longer fragment about this tribe VII.14.22-
  30 - he has the name as ANTAI), Menander (Fr. 6 where the ANTAI are 
  reported to get destroyed by Avares), Mauricius (STRATHGIKON, XI.3, 
  4: advice how to wage war against the ANTAI, just in case, with a 
  very detailed description of  the probable adversaries) and others 
  more. Very difficult to believe all the authors borrowed it from 
  Jordanes. But can we be quite sure that it was just this ethnonym 
  which produced the known Germanic forms: OE _ent_ "giant", OHG 
  _enz_ "idem" (after G. Koebler). And is the adjective OS 
  _entisc_ "huge", OLFr, OHG _entisk _ "old" formed from the same 
  stem? Koebler explains them in different ways (OS < PG 
  *antjaz "giant", OLFr, OHG < PG *andjaz "end", dependent on meaning 
  I guess). If so, why OLFr not *endisk? If nevertheless it's from 
  *antjaz too - why OHG not *enzisk? Maybe it's a Low-to-High German 
  loan, or vice versa?
  Whatever it be, for our ends it would be interesting to know if the 
  semantics of the word mutated from ethnonym to "giant" (a very well-
  spread change) already in Gothic, so that this word (pl. 
  *Antjos:*Anteis) could be reconstructed in the latter meaning. 
  Jordanes describes them as rather serious opponents of the Gothic 
  war power (Get. 247: ...dum adgreditur prima congressione superatus, 
  deinde etc...).
  The name itself is usually thought to be Iranian derived from the 
  same IE base ant- "limit", "end", which produced PG *andjaz, so 
  Antes could have meant roughly the same as Marcomanni or nowaday's 
  Ukrainians.
  
  Ualarauans
  
  
      
                                    

 		
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