Using DNA to find Goths

[sturlus]

Thank you all for good replies!

I agree that this is not an easy task at all. The "gentetic window" 
that has opened up now, thanks to the recent development in DNA 
technology, will not stay open for long as so many people are 
intermarrying across cultures. We face great challenges everywhere 
we collect DNA-samples and our best shot are in remote isolated 
regions.

Finding and defining specific Goths is even more difficult. However, 
this is not our primary goal. The Black Sea area is a most 
interesting place in Human history the past 10-12.000 years, 
especially in indo-european studies. (Also see  
https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html, press 
Genetic Markers, check out M173 and M17 of Haplogroup R1 and R1A).

We will gradually work our way backwards in time starting in the 
Migration Period on our first expedition to Russia and the Ukraine, 
along with searching for Visi-Goths or Vandals in Spain and among 
Berber groups in the Atlas Mountains of Northern Africa. 

It will be interesting whatever we come up with, but the challenge 
of sorting out our material is great. So in preparations I wish to 
maximize the probability by reducing the search field as much as 
possible. When we reach back in time to Hellenistic times, things 
might get even more interesting as we now there was a migration of 
Greeks to the same Black Sea area at that time.

If we were able to find something Gothic among the "Greeks" in 
Mariupol and comparing this with our findings in Spain, then that 
would be superb for us. However, since DNA at this time only can 
search backwards straight on the fathers side (y-chromosome) or 
mothers side (mtDNA), AND with the complex challenge of specifying 
a "Gothic gene", I am pretty sure we're up for a big challenge.

I saw that my initial post didn't come out in html after all, so 
I'll post my 4 main points of interest/help once again:

I am in need of:
- Tips on where to collect DNA! (Places/Histories) 
- Local contacts along our route: universities, students, possible 
useful assistants, politicians (local authorities), Genealogy 
organisations, Greek cultural organisations and any others whom 
could help us. 
- Anything else that might aid us! 
- Other theories and peoples we could / should look for in 
Russia/Ukraine around the Black Sea or for that matter other places 
in Europe/Central Asia, using DNA.

Thanks for any more tips/help on this!


Ingemar, Carl and Andreas: I agree with you all that the genetic mix 
of the Goths might make this impossible. However, atleast we'll give 
it a try now and whatever we find might turn interesting in any 
case. 

Oscar: Yes, it is actually possible to find see how many generations 
back two individuals are related, and using haplogroups it might 
even be possible to put this on a map as well. The work that among 
others Dr. Spencer Wells at National Geographic and Professor 
Stephen Oppenheimer is doing (whom both of I am counselling with) 
are doing is really groundbreaking. Check also out 
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey.

Arthur: It's interesting that you mention the Uyghur Mummies (or the 
Tarim mummies) as these are highly interesting and are ancient 
peoples we will try to approach. We would like to retrieve DNA from 
isolated villages/peoples and I am searching for these at the 
moment. If you have any tips to give me, do let me know!

Dirk: As you can see above, I am well aware of the challenges we 
face. Most likely we won't find or identify a "Gothic DNA", but in 
any case the answer we will get might turn out just as interesting. 
Also, I would like to add that if this continues (=if we are 
somewhat successful and our investors don't go tired of us), then we 
have plans to retrieve DNA from skeletons, from many Germanic groups 
and royal DNA-lineages as well. For example, next year we plan to 
find out if the Viking Rollo of Normandy was originally Danish or 
Norwegian. He was the great-great grandfather of William the 
Conqueror on the fathers side and we plan to find his DNA from one 
of his great-grandsons buried in England. 

Ualarauans: I will definitely keep you informed of our progress and 
results. This is a long road up ahead, but now we are starting and 
let's see where we end up :) Thanks for your tips. I will follow 
them up!

Andrei: Thank you for good contacts. They will probably come to good 
use!


Thanks again and please don't hesitate to post or email me if there 
is anything that could come to use!

Sturla










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