Poety to translate?

Thu Mar 23 18:33:58 UTC 2006

Golja Thuk, Thiudan!

  Thanks for your reply. *Fifald(r)o is great! Talking about this, is the first syllable a reduplication? If so, the spelling should be *faifaldro (with ai [e]) perhaps. But as far as I know (and that’s not a long distance) there are no nouns with a (vivid) reduplication attested in Gothic, are they? And how is it (if it is) connected with the stem represented in Gothic falthan (cf. nhd. Falter : falten – maybe a later association?). The verb at least IS a reduplicative one (Past tense: faifalth).
  About the “Grail” it might be of some interest to speculate.
  If we postulate a loanword from MLatin, then forms like *gradels, *gradaleis or whatever more would do. But if trying to “find” a Gothic pendant the foremost question that arises is what the Grail actually was (is) – a cup, a stone, a gem etc. Here we are threatened to get lost in a rather off-topic discussion that traces down to the Middle Age, moreover this vagueness seems to be an integral part of the legend.
  Let us proceed from the offered text © Michael Adams where it is a cup. Then stikls is the first that comes to the mind. Checking up its attestations in Ulfilan codices we come across both sacral and profane usages (cf. John 18:11 “stikl thanei gaf mis atta, niu drigkau thana?” and esp. Cor. I. 10:16 ff. “stikls thiuthiqissais thanei gaweiham, niu gamainduths blothis fraujins ist?” versus Mk. 7:4 “daupeinins stikle jah aurkje jah katile jah ligre” et sim.). I guess, to refer more precisely to the denotate we could try and “find” some composita with -stikls as the second element, e. g.:
  *weihastikls “the holy cup”,
  *xristustikls “Christ’s cup”, or even
  *blothastikls “blood cup” though the latter sounds somewhat “vampiric”, doesn’t it? Cf. however Cor. I. 11:25 “sa stikls so niujo triggwa ist in meinamma blotha“ > *triggwastikls?
  Could we then draw hence some parallels to Pre-Christian items attested in other Germanic areas, e. g. ON. (Eyrbyggja saga) hlautbolli “cup of sacrificial blood used in rituals” etc. and thus make our reconstruction more “historically verifiable”?

  Now let me offer you my attempt to translate the whole verse (I’m afraid I again digressed too far from the original)

  THE GRAIL: I seem to ramble from place to place, never staying
  one in any one place, ever searching, like a knight on quest,
  for that grail oh so dear, so close but oh so far, almost in
  sight, but never visible, I go on and on, until the end is here,
  and it draws near, and I can hear the calls of angels sweet, and
  I shall finally drink of that cup, so rich and rare a draught it
  shall be, for in the end, the cup will hold life, and life is so
  sweet, and to know this, I quest.

  STIKLIS SOKNS
  Ungastoths hvarbo [ik] bi hveilain ni saurgands
  Sinteino sokjands stilk thana weihan
  *Laiwin galeiks saei laisteith tho stairnon
  Merjandein *mariwig faura maurginis uhtwon
  – Swiknana stikl ni bisauleith manna
  Afguths jah unwairths, arwjo skal sokjan –
  Framis nu farja bi fulginai mundrein
  Und thana andi, than aggiljus haitand mik
  Skaunjaim stibnom. Stikl than andnima
  Dragk thata *diurjo drigka us thamma
  Junda tho aiweinon aigi sa wairtha
  Libains galauba – laun this sokjandins

  Some remarks

  *laiwin is Dat. Sg. from *laiwa M. -an “boat”, “small ship” – a hypothetical Finnish borrowing (Fin. laiva, Est. laev “idem”) into Gothic when crossing the Baltic Sea. In fact it’s highly improbable that Goths being evidently a sea-shore nation experienced in seafaring already before the migration started would adopt marine terminology from elsewhere. Here it’s just for the sake of rhyme.
  To compare the seeker with a ship that follows its way through the dark of the night guided by the Pole Star (here “so stairno”) would seem to fit the supposed “language consciousness” of Viking Goths better than the “Knight on a Quest” motive which is rather medieval. All the above-said can easily be nonsense since I know too little about the subject.

  *mariwigs “sea-way” (for mari- as the first element cf. mari-saiws).
  “merjan wig” for “to show the way” sounds somewhat alien. A variant is “Mundondein mans sis faura maurginis uhtwon”, i.e. “that (sc. the Star) looks down upon humans before the day is breaking” (problems with word-order, I see).

  *diureis adj. -ja “precious” (= ME dear)

  Excuse my limited vocabulary, up to the nearest time all I disposed of was a brief glossary in W. Braune’s Gotische Grammatik (13. Auflage. – Halle/Saale: Max Niemeyer Verlag, 1952). Now looking into Streitberg’s (best thanks to Project Wulfila) I tell to myself “And you thought you know the language!”

  Craving for your opinions and comments
  Ualarauans

  P. S. By the way, I heard there were authors that assumed a closer bond between actual Visigoths and the Grail legends. Since I did not read the books I can not judge if this idea is scientifically grounded or is it just a fancy of historical fiction writers.

thiudans <thiudans at yahoo.com> wrote:  --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Guenther Ramm <ualarauans at ...> wrote:

Hails!

Nice translation & alliteration!
No grammar comments now.
I like flower-fly, nice invention.
The first line has many syllables so I will offer a shorter one for
possibility of longer notes:

>   O *blomafliugo waliso, thuei windaleiko ufaro airthai nu rinnis

O *fifaldo waliso, (hwaiwa) theinamma winda-staigon galeiko

"how like that wind-road (you ride)". I thought riding is implicit in
"road" perhaps.

If Grail shall be a borrowing = Gradéls-. Else, the attested word
Stikls will do fine.

cheers,
The Moderator

> Hails, *Garazdans!
>   Would you mind another translation attempt? Not always a
word-for-word one, of cause, but instead I tried to "reconstruct" here
and there some of alliterative rhyme. All those clumsy "neologisms"
are mine (just slapdash invented and without any claim to get into the
waurdahuzd).
>   By the way, I would be very thankful for every hint about what
Gothic "butterfly" or rather "Grail" be like.
>    
>   BUTTERFLIES ARE FREE: Oh sweet butterfly, so like the wind you
>   ride, to catch you is to know you but in this all I do is still
>   you and hold you captive, butterflies are free, to know the
>   currents of wind, to fly afar, never to be held by mortal
>   hands. For in the holding is the tragedy, for what are dreams
>   held but never let free.
>    
>    
>   O *blomafliugo waliso, thuei windaleiko ufaro airthai nu rinnis
>   Ibai sa fahands thuk frathjan duginnith
>   Hva maht ist haldis nibai hafta thuk fastan
>   Frijos sind *fliugons, thozei fairrathro brahtedun
>   Windos thai waiandans fram waihstam this midjungardis
>   Ni du fragiban thos gumane handum 
>   Wai thamma wiljandin winda gatamjan
>   Draum faurdammjan in daubithos hairtins
>    
>   Looking forward a scornful sneer of connoisseurs
>    
> Ualarauans
> 
> Michael Adams <abrigon at ...> wrote:  I am learning to ask first, so I
do not waste peoples bandwidth
> to much..
> 
> Here goes: (two or more)
> 
> BUTTERFLIES ARE FREE: Oh sweet butterfly, so like the wind you
> ride, to catch you is to know you but in this all I do is still
> you and hold you captive, butterflies are free, to know the
> currents of wind, to fly afar, never to be held by mortal
> hands. For in the holding is the tragedy, for what are dreams
> held but never let free.
> 
> THE GRAIL: I seem to ramble from place to place, never staying
> one in any one place, ever searching, like a knight on quest,
> for that grail oh so dear, so close but oh so far, almost in
> sight, but never visible, I go on and on, until the end is here,
> and it draws near, and I can hear the calls of angels sweet, and
> I shall finally drink of that cup, so rich and rare a draught it
> shall be, for in the end, the cup will hold life, and life is so
> sweet, and to know this, I quest.
> 
> VASHTI OF THE FLAME RED TRESSES: Oh my dearest lady mine, for
> your passing has emptied my heart, but the memories of you will
> be with me forever. The joy we felt in our youth, the times we
> spent in our middle years. The things we did here, there and
> all. Friends we made,  times we spent, even when angry we did it
> in love. How the feeling I do feel at your passing, for you my
> lady of hair so red was me, and I you, a half has gone away and
> left me with feelings of what now, not to replace but the
> feeling of what now? Who can I turn to when I need love,
> carrying, a gentle hand a soft caress, to be told I was wrong
> and the love to show me gently. To be there for me, and I for
> you. Bye my dear lady of flaming hair that lighted up the
> darkness of my life, for before you there was darkness and now
> what? Farewell my dear until that day with Gods/fates grace I
> can join you once again, to walk hand in hand, arm in arm,
> carress to carress, feel to feel and knowing we will be together
> always..
> 
> Mike Adams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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