Aiwropais Ahvos Thiudozuh

[Егоров Владимир]

Hi Ualarauans and Ingemar!

I also hope our moderators will look through their fingers at our discussion.
I would readdress my claims to the Russian Academy of Sciences with pleasure but, I am sure, with no result. I myself work within that formation and do not have any illusions.
Of course, all my previous remarks referred solely to the ethnonym "chyud'", not the stem, which appeared in Old Church Slavonic in the form "chuzhd-" and has derivatives in Russian (chuzhoy, chudnoy etc.), with the meaning strange, foreign as well.
Note, the Baltic Finns were not the only non-Slavic folk the East-Slavs encountered on the banks of Chudskoye lake if they were at all there. At least a big Baltic tribe, the so-called Pskov's Kriviches, lived there while presence of your "Baltic Finns" is not proved archaeologically.
Any contacts between the Goths and Slavs within the area of the Chernyakhov culture looks very dubious. First, the lifetime of the culture was too short. Second, existence of some Slavs (or Pre-Slavs) in that area is questionable by itself. I seem you should find other places and times for those contacts. Ingemar, the Russian archaeologist Shchukin develops an idea of Bastarnian participation in the Slavonic ethnogenesis with references to the zarubinetskaya culture. But he considers the Bastarni as rather the Celts than the Germans or, more exactly, a "third people between the Celts and Germans".
Yes, the Ingermanland (Inkeri) language still lives, but the French language lives and prospers also, though it is not a German language of the original Franks. The same way the original conjectural East Germanic language of the Ingermanni was consecutively finnishized (Inger > Inkeri) and than slavonized (Inkeri > Izhora).
A remark on the launch of the first manned spaceship. Again, all the same. The Soviet people did not know that the first sputnik and the first man ascended into the space using German engines of Werner von Braun and, to a significant extent, German fuel. All German sources were always concealed and never mentioned in the USSR, both in history and technology.

Vladimir


-----Original Message-----
From: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com [mailto:gothic-l at yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Ingemar Nordgren
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:26 PM
To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Aiwropais Ahvos Thiudozuh


--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Guenther Ramm <ualarauans at ...> wrote:

>   - A Germanic substrate in Southeast Baltic preceding Finns? That's
interesting, but is there some more evidence besides Tacitus?
According to Tacitus, the Earth is a flat disc, maybe :) The
Ingermanland (Inkeri) language still lives, though close to
extinction, in several villages near St.-Petersburg. It is well
described in the literature and is no more Germanic than Finnish or
Estonian. It belongs to the same Baltic Finnish group I said of above.

Hi Ualarus and Vladimir,

There is an earlier Germanic people according to the earlier
researchers supposed to have settled the area before the Goths. This
is of course before the present tendency to see a pure native
developement between the different cultures in present Wielbark - a
tendency which I partly oppose since it excludes any outside
interference. This people is supposed to be the Bastarni and also in a
discussed relation to them the Sciri.

Best
Ingemar






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