Tyringi and Tervingi

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans at ...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dirk,
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <d.faltin@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@> 
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Did someone try to link this name with Gothic *Tairwiggos? It
> really
> > > seems a perfect match, as far as phonetics is concerned. Still, 
> it
> > > can also prove a mere coincidence. Surely we could try and find
> > > somewhere a toponym *Griessingen (< *Griutiggos, Greutungi) as
> well.
> > > But in the light of the other data collected by you, the
> suggestion
> > > of Teruingi-Zehringer settling down in what would become 
> Thuringia
> > > appears pretty probable.
> >
> > 
> > Hi Ualarauans,
> > 
> > <...>
> > Should Gothic *Tairwiggos not have evolved into Zehrwinger rather
> > than Zehringer?
> 
> Well, strictly spoken, if we drag Gothic *Tairwigggos through all 
> the historic changes in High German as a petrified item (that is as 
> if it had been borrowed without much understanding of its meaning), 
> the result must be *Zerbinger, as the consonant group PG –rw- 
> yielded OHG –raw- and NHG –rb- before a vowel. Examples are PG
> *farwô(n) > OHG farawa > MHG varwe > NHG Farbe; PG *garwjanan > OHG 
> garawen > MHG garwen, gerwen > NHG gerben; et al. But I think we 
> could find in this formation a kind of a later re-distribution of 
> the constituent morphemes. That is, the word was understood as 
> derived from the word "tar" (OHG zero) through hanging up the 
> suffix –ing. This –w- would probably get lost historically in the 
> single-standing noun, with a compensatory lengthening of the root 
> vowel (zero > ze:r, written zehr, like Low German teer). The suffix 
> could be added directly to the re-formed stem. Thus the form 
> *Zehringer could result.


Hi Ualarauans,

many thanks for this interesting analysis.
The onomastics professor J. Udolph wrote that the question whether 
the name Thuringia had originally Th- or T- in Anlaut remains 
unresolved. 

The following recordings show why:
Ca. 400 AD Toringi; 480 Toringus; 5th cent. Teuringi, Theouringoi; 
511 Thoringi; 537 Thoringi; 550 Thoringoi; 551 Thuringi; 580 
Thoringi; Thoringia; 570-580 Thoringi Toringi, Taringi, Turingos; 6 
cent. Turingi, Thouriggoi, toringhi, Turingi, Turingia. Until the 
11th century both T- and Th- forms are recorded. 

Cheers,

Dirk











> 
> I'd not bet my head on the explanation above, and would greatly 
> appreciate a correction by an expert in the German language history.
> 
> > I think one problem with the name Thuringia could have arisen from
> > the fact that the name had basically fallen out of use in the
> > 13th/14th century and that it was only revived in around 1800.
> 
> That could naturally explain a lot! Inter alia, why we've got the 
> archaic Th-Anlaut instead of *Düringen (if originally [þ]) or 
> Züringen (if originally [t]).
> 
> Ualarauans
>







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