Visigothic identity of Spain

[macmaster at RISEUP.NET]

Language of liturgy and scripture surely had some impact in distinguishing
ethnies ... an Arian service in Gothic with bible readings in Gothic
clearly had a different impact than a Catholic service in Vulgar Latin

Tom


ualarauans wrote:
> Hails Iggwimer,
>
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar at ...>
> wrote:
>>
>> As though people in that time
>> > chose their religion after a long logical deliberation, comparing
>> > different views and their own intuitions, considering whether this
>> > or that particular confession behaved politically correct towards
>> > minorities and religious dissidents etc.
>>
>> In this case you must consider the Germanic tradition where all gods
>> were as accepted and could be used for different means. The Christian
>> varnish was presumably not so thick with the general Goth and the
>> tradition of respecting people confessing to other gods surely
>> remained as a cultural heritage. Before they took Arianism they as
>> well respected Christian non-Goths while the pre-christian fertility
>> cult for the Goths themselves rather was used as an ethnicity
> warranty
>> as was also Arianism BTW.This ethnicity however was lost when the
>> leading folks turned Catholics.
>
> Yes, what I was trying to say, rather disorderly, in my previous post
> is that it was more a problem of collective identity, not theology,
> which divided Arian and Catholic-Orthodox. When marching under Totila
> to meet Narses' hordes in the field, our average Goth was probably
> aware that the enemies had a different ("wrong") interpretation of
> Christ's nature than himself. He must have been said by his priest
> that he would fight for the right cause (standaiþ nu, ufgaurdanai
> hupins izwarans sunjai jah gapaidodai brunjon garaihteins – Eph.
> 6:14), he had received his absolution and a promise of paradise if he
> would fall in battle (didn't this idea correlate to the concept of
> Walhalla?). But when meditating in his soul what it actually is – to
> be Arian – he was hardly pondering all the arguments of the parties in
> Nicaea, nor recalling polemic points of theological treatises which
> deacon Gudilub did sometimes cite in their communal church. He was
> much more likely thinking of his wife, a woman of Roman descent, of
> their children, their house and a plot of arable land (haim-oþli)
> given to his grandfather after Theodoric brought the people to Italy.
> Of his parents and friends being Arian too, though firmly believing
> that Xristus-Iggws resurrects on Easter making herbs and crops grow
> again after winter death. In short, to be Arian meant for him to keep
> the way of life he got used to. The invading Byzantine armies
> threatened to destroy it. Maybe, they were bringing a higher culture
> and a better administration, but these were felt as something "alien",
> something "unnatural", still more loathsome because they were planted
> through political intrigues and military violence.
>
> This clash of cultures was apparently often comprehended within the
> predominant religious world picture as a struggle between good and
> evil. The enemy was utterly demonized. People behaved according to the
> principle "right or wrong – my kin". And many of them did not regard
> the terrestrial human life as the highest value. If we want to
> understand and explain historical events of that time, we must not
> only compare the contesting theological doctrines, but also the way
> these doctrines could get reflected in the mass consciousness of their
> bearers.
>
> Ualarauans
>
>
>





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