Terwingi and Tyringi/Turingi

[ualarauans]

Hi Dirk,

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <d.faltin@> wrote:
> 
> the Hermun-duri to Thuringi shift seems to be completely rejected
> nowadays. Its main support rested on the perception that the two
> people lived in the same region. Yet, as Springer shows in the
> earlier cited article that is not really the case. In addition, the
> temporal gap between Hermunduri and the Thyringi is too big as 
well.
> Finally, as you have mentioned the shift from d to th is strange.
> 
> Grahn-Hoek argues that all that is needed to get from Theruingi to
> Theuringi is a metathesis of e and u. She mentioned that there are
> other expamples of such switches. Interestingly, a Thuringian gau
> (pagus), called the Dyringo/Duringo in low German was also rendered
> as Duervingo and Durvinge in medieval documents. The switch from Th
> to D in low German occured around the 10th/11th century. Before 
this
> the name would have been Thuervingo and Thurvinge, which is
> basically analogue to Thyrvinge and remarkably close to T(h)
> eruingi/Terwingi. Another, 11th century name form of Thuringia is
> Dvoringen.

I seem to get lost in medieval spellings of the name, so I better 
ask for help. This /th-/ im Anlaut of the name Thuringi (Middle 
Age), Thüringer (present day) – did it once reflect the 
pronunciation [þ] or was it just an "ornamental" way to write [t], 
as it is now?

If it was a [þ], then the change –duri > *þuring- is really 
unexplainable. But then, *Þuringi would yield *Duringi both in High 
and Low German. And, what is most important, *Þuringi could not 
evolve from Teruingi, for whatever medieval spellings were, it was 
Gothic *Tairwiggos, with a [t], not [þ]. The same is valid for a 
name derived from Tyras.

Now, if we accept it was an Anlaut-[t] in Thuringi, then this form 
could probably be explained as a High German shift of [d] > [t], and 
the traditional etymology –duri > Thuringi probably holds so far. 
For which Low German Duringi supply additional evidence. But in this 
case also, it proves impossible to derive it directly from 
Teruingi/*Tyringi.

It's a good time to ask whether Thuringian is above or below the 
Benrather Linie (I cannot grasp my atlas right now)? If it was 
hochdeutsch, subject to the Second Sound Shift, it would have made 
Go. *Tairwiggos rather *Zehringer or the like.

But this name seems to neglect phonetic regularities. So the option 
Thuringi < (somehow) Teruingi or (still more plausible phonetically) 
Tyringi shouldn't probably be excluded.

> Also, note that Odovacer was called rex Thorcilingorum. It was
> usually assumed that the Thorcilingi were either an otherwise
> unknown tribe or the name of the dynasty. Only the Greek Malchos
> fragment solves the riddle. This source states that the father of
> Onulfus, the brother of Odovacer was a Thuringian on his father's
> side and a Scirian on his mothers side. Hence, Thorcilingorum would
> probably have to be emendated to Thoringorum. This emendation was
> recently supported by Castritius and Pohl. The example shows that
> strange scribal errors did occur, especially with the name of the
> Thuringians. In fact, Grahn-Hoek shows several examples were 
authors
> confused the names Teruingi and Teuringi.

I thought once that Torcilingi could be a vestige of some (proto-)
Turkic presence in Europe in the Migration period (through the 
Huns?). Go. *Taurkiliggos would mean "descendants of *Taurkeis, 
Turks" (cf. ON Tyrkir).

> Another interesting line of argument pertains to the rex Gothorum
> Radagaisus. Radagaisus attacked Italy in 406 with a large army,
> which was composed of different groups and led by two other unnamed
> princes. Zosimus stated that this army had come from the region
> between Danube and Rhine. The land between Danube and Rhine is
> exactly how the later Thuringian kingdom is described. Grahn-Hoek
> suggests that Radagaisus was a successor of Athanaric as leader of
> the remnants of the Athanaric-Terwingi who had chosen not to join
> Fritigern and Alaviv on Roman territory. A 6th century Thuringian-
> Warnian prince had the name Radagais/Radagis, while two princesses
> were called Rada-gunde, and one prince had the name Rada-ulf and 
one
> Arta-gais. In other words, the name components of Radagaisus were
> quite prevalent in the Thuringian royal family which could point to
> a family link. Radagaisus is often believed to be a Ostrogoths,
> because the sources state that he was a pagan, while the Visigoths
> were Christians. Yet, he is not mentioned in the Ostrogothic Amal
> geneology and as a leader of the anti-Roman and anti-Christian
> Athanaric Goths he would have been a pagan.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dirk

Ualarauans





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