Toledo

[gutdwala]

Well, I was curious about the Tabula Gentes and what it says, and 
googling it all I came up with was an old post from '04 (http://
listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0406&L=gothic-
l&D=1&P=12289). 

'Not surprising, since the Visigoths in Spain dropped their Gothic 
language likely before the middle of the 6th century, in fact it was 
likely already in decline when the Goths arrived theie after their 
defeat in 507AD. The Frankish 'tabula gentes' (ca. 550AD) calls the 
Visigoths the 'Latin speaking Goths' to distinguish them from the 
Ostrogoths.'

But since that's another post by faltin, it doesn't help settle the 
matter much. Does anyone have access to the actual document? 



--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, macmaster at ... wrote:
>
> I'm not so sure; using the Normans as a template, we see that they 
were
> using Germanic names long after they had adopted French, English, 
and
> Italian.
> We also find the same with other Germanic groups that were 
indisputably
> speaking Romance languages - the Lombards come to mind.
> And, to this day, a great many Spanish, French, and Italian given 
names
> reflect Gothic, Frankish, Norse, and Lombard origins.
> 
> 
> OSCAR HERRERA wrote:
> > i can only say with dispute in the case with faltin ......think 
about all
> > the gothic chieftains thru the centuries in being their names as
> > germanic-gothic......it sounds odd that  all these gothic kings 
thru time
> > have gothic names but their speaking another language.......oscar
> >
> > Michael Erwin <merwin at ...> wrote:          We might compare,
> > as best we can, reconstructed linguistic frontiers from c. 300 
with those
> > from c. 800. The West Germanic languages did expand, Anglo-
Frisian largely
> > replacing Latin and Welsh in the British Lowlands, and Dutch-
German
> > expanding into the Low Countries, Rhineland, Switzerland, and the 
upper
> > Danube to the Alps. The East
> > Germanic languages seem to disappear outside the Crimea and 
possibly
> > other enclaves as the Slavic languages spread... Arabic also 
spreads.
> >
> > Gothic never had the religious importance of Latin or Arabic. If 
it
> > was not the majority language in Gutþiuda, it was the most 
important (and
> > the various histories nowhere suggest local language/trade
> > language/prestige language divisions), was adopted for that 
reason, and
> > was supplemented by Greek and Latin for the same reason as early 
as
> > Wulfila's own exile.
> >
> >
> > The size and demographics of the exile groups remain largely 
unknown.
> > Refugee populations tend to have slightly higher proportions of 
women
> > and children than most populations, and the same may have applied 
to the
> > refugees of 376. I think there were multiple mass migrations into 
the
> > Balkans, starting with 376, and smaller migrations, starting in
> > 348, which could have changed the linguistic landscape in the 
Balkans
> > just as other migrations changed the linguistic landscape in 
England. (Even
> > if the total migration only amounts to 10-30% of the regional 
population).
> > However, Slavic-speakers repeated the process in the
> > same parts of the Balkans. I think there were much smaller, and 
more
> > characteristically military, campaigns into Italy, Gaul, and 
Spain.
> >
> > The name Totila, as has been noted elsewhere, is not old Gothic. 
It
> > involves an additional sound-shift. This suggests living, 
primarily spoken,
> > language, as well as contact with West-Germanic dialects.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>


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