Use of Gothic language in Spain

[OSCAR HERRERA]

read your history dirk

faltin2001 <d.faltin at hispeed.ch> wrote:          --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Michael Erwin <merwin at ...> wrote:
>
> I assume that the Gothic language was more often spoken in 5th- 
> century Aquitaine than in 6th-century Spain. I would expect the 
same 
> density of Gothic place-names in Aquitaine as Swabisk place-names 
in 
> northwestern Spain, and a gradual drop-off of place-name-density 
> between Aquitaine, Catalonia, and central Spain.
> 
> But what is the known Gothic-place-name-density in Aquitaine? If it 
> is less than the Swabisk place-name-density in northwestern Spain, 
> I'd expect that people have recognized the latter more easily than 
> the former.
>

Hi, 

if you read 5 papers on placename evidence you typically get 5 
different opinions. There are really no "Swabisk" (I guess you mean 
Suevic) place names in north-west Spain and as for so called Gothic 
placenames in Aquitaine or Spain there is really very very little that 
is convincing. Take Andalusia and Katalania for example. Some 
linguists argued that these names were derived from names like 
*Vandalusia (i.e. refering to the Vandals) and Gotolonia (refering to 
the Goths). Both derivation are complete nonsense, but they show how 
creative people were with wellknown regional names. Imagine the degree 
of creativity applied to small villages and hamlets. 

The Goths in Spain settled not in villages but in an around larger 
towns and garrisons. Only a few high status individuals aquired rustic 
villas and what is most importantly, the people we called Goths in 
Spain didn't speak Gothic, at least not in the 6th and 7th centuries. 
Finally, all this supposed placename evidence assumes that the 
classical sources were reliable about the numbers of Goths in Spain. 
Thus, in the older literature you can find numbers of around 100000 to 
200000 or even more. Archaeologists and historians like R. Collins now 
think that the number was more likely to be around 30000. I.e. 30000 
people that included perhaps 10000 fighting men. In the early 5th 
century this was an unopposable force in Spain, which is why they 
found easy employment by the Romans, who employed them first to clear 
Spain of other Germanic marauders like the Vandals; who were then 
ordered back to Gaul to deal with the Baugaudic threat in the Loire 
region and who again employed against Sueves and other internal 
opposition. In fact, as Collins sets out nicely this Gothic mercenary 
army was indistinguishable from a proper Roman army. Both were 
Christian, both included many ethnic Germans, but also many non-
Germanic people; both were Christians, both moved around with their 
wives and children both were similarly dressed and equipped and 
importantly both spoke a Latin-Germanic military pidgin that was 
mutually comprehensible. 

Yet, the official Roman armies had almost completely disappeared from 
western Europe by the early 5th century. They had withdrawn from 
Britain in 410, they had left northern Gaul in around 406. The only 
force that could oppose the Vandals, Sueves and Alans near Mainz in 
406 were the Franks, who acted as Roman federates. The proper Roman 
army, or what was left of it was nowhere to be seen. Where had all the 
soldiers gone who left Britain and Gaul. Many of them propably joined 
new military forces such as the Goths and Franks in Roman employment. 
So again the group we call Visigoths in the 5th century should not be 
mistaken as "a people" let alone "nation" it was a army employed by 
Rome against other armies like the Vandals, Sueves and the Bagaudae.

Cheers,
Dirk



         


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