Assimil-like course to learn modern Gothic (not finished yet)

Fri May 30 05:44:13 UTC 2014

A few additional comments/suggestions:

pg. 3. *ni* 'not' should come before the verb it negates and not after. Ik
mag ni rodjan Gutisks --> Ik ni mag rodjan Gutisks.

pg. 3. The particle *-u* should be attached to the first word of a yes/no
question, so *Magt þu rodjan Gutisks? *should be *Magt-u rodjan Gutisks? *If
the first word starts with a particle, then the *-u* should be placed
between the particle and the verb, so ana-kunnis þu ufta bokos?
should be anau-kunnis
ufta bokos?

I think it is all right to use *Gutisks* to refer to the language--it is
common in the Germanic languages to use an adjective as the name of a
language. Moreover, I disagree that *Gutisks *should be in the feminine to
refer to the language; it should be neuter. If you look at Modern Dutch or
German, the neuter is used to refer to the language even though the word
for 'language' is common and feminine gender, respectively. So, for
example, *het Nederlands* (neuter gender) versus *de Nederlandse taal *(common
gender).

pg 5. *haita* should be *haitada*. Contrary to popular belief, *haitan* in
Gothic never means "to be called" unless explicitly marked for passive
voice, unlike the modern Germanic languages.

pg 7. Verbs do not have *declensions* or *declinations *but *conjugations*.
But given the context, I'm not sure either is the correct term you mean to
use. Perhaps *inflection*? But it is not really clear what it is you are
trying to say--could you elaborate?

Best regards,

Robert

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 4:49 AM, Edmund Fairfax edmundfairfax at yahoo.ca
[gothic-l] <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> You invited corrections and comments, so here are some:
>
> Lesson 1:
>
> 1) I think it would be preferable to use Gothic names -- Why not use
> *Wulfila* or **Airmanareiks* or the like*? O*r at least Gothic versions
> of the names chosen: Roderick, for example, would be **Hrothareiks.*
>
>  2) Gothic is a pro-drop language; that is, subject pronouns are not
> normally expressed, unless the subject is contrastive or emphatic. Thus, *magt
> rodjan?* is then to be expected rather than *magt thu rodjan?*
>
> 3) I have misgivings about using the neologism **gutisks* to render
> '(the) Gothic (language)'. Given *gutthiuda* '(the) Gothic people', I
> would suggest using **gutrazda* (cf. Old English *engliscgereord* '(the)
> English (language)'). If you do use **gutisk-*, then it should likely be
> feminine (assuming *razda* 'language' is understood). As it stands, ***Magt
> thu rodjan gutisks?* is ungrammatical: the object ('Gothic') cannot be in
> the nominative case here, as *rodjan* requires an accusative object:
> either *gutiska* (fem. acc.) or *gutiskana* (masc. acc.), cf. *tho waurda
> thoei ik rodida izwis* (John6,64) 'the words (acc.) that I have spoken to
> you'.
>
> 4) *Wai* means 'woe, alas'
>
> Lesson 2:
>
> 1) 'I want to know' is not ***ik mag witan* but rather *wiljau witan.*
>
> 2) The preposition *du* normally takes the dative; thus ***du gard is* should
> be *du garda is* or *du is garda. *I have doubts about the construction *sa
> wigs du garda is* and will see if I can find something better.
>
> 3) ***thu magt fraihnan imma* is ungrammatical: *fraihnan* takes an
> accusative object; cf. *frah ina sa kindins* 'the governor asked him'.
> The verb *magan* normally denotes ability; the use of the verb here to
> indicate a suggestion is surely an anglicism. I suggest you use simply
> *fraihnan* in the subjunctive*.*
>
> 3) *Goths* must refer to a masculine noun. Based on the construction
> evident in *batizo ist thus ei frakwistnai aina lithiwe theinaize...* ('it
> is better for you that one of your limbs perish'), the neuter form of
> *goths* would appear to be necessary here.
>
> 4) 'I thank you' should be *awiliudo thus* cf. *Guth, awiliudo thus unte
> ni im swaswe thai antharai mans* "God, I thank thee that I am not like
> the others'.
>
>  I have not looked beyond this to see what errors may lie ahead.
>
> I fear that you have introduced too many grammatical points into these
> exchanges (the three cases nom., acc., and dat.), verbs from a variety of
> classes (the pret. pres. no less), etc., which are likely to overwhelm the
> learner. I understand you wish to have a conversational thrust, but
> introducing such a variety of grammatical concepts in less than eight lines
> is not user-friendly.
>
> Edmund
>
>
>   On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:10:48 PM, "roellingua at gmail.com
> [gothic-l]" <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>  I thought that it might be an idea to already share this with you guys
> in order to get some reviews.
>
> The texts aren't perfect and I 'm not sure about the word order, the
> grammar might also contain certain mistakes, but I would be happy if people
> point them out so that I can correct them.
>
> I assume that most people here are familiar with the method of Assimil? I
> have learned several languages with the books of Assimil because their
> method simply is to use a lot of dialogs to get used to the way in which
> the languages is used. For the Gothic language, we only have all kinds of
> books to learn the grammar, new words etc. I thought that it might be a
> good idea to have an Assimil-like book for Gothic for the people which
> don't like to study too much things and just like to go straight to what
> you use it for: conversation
>
> At the moment I have made 12 lessons.
>
> I have uploaded the current PDF and you can download it here:
> http://roel.tengudev.com/Neo%20Gothic/download_course.php
>       http://roel.tengudev.com/Neo%20Gothic/download_course.php
> The download link to the Gothic Learning Book PDF: Conversational course
> for Gothic.
>      View on roel.tengudev.com
> <http://roel.tengudev.com/Neo%20Gothic/download_course.php>
>   Preview by Yahoo
>
> This is the link to the document if you want to see updates, it looks
> different from the PDF though and uglier:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12rtTAxpUcOJrgOMBXAOFnFvH_ElTuL-EBS69kEp6was/pub
>
>
> What I still need are people who can help with neologisms, there isn't
> even an official organization for it yet. I also don't know how we can set
> that up.
>
> If it is good enough we could try to go to Assimil and ask if they see
> something in this.
>
>
>    
>
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