[gothic-l] Translating the New Testament into Gothic

Wed Jan 14 10:19:15 UTC 2015

Matthew 12-24
Matthew 25, 1-37
Matthew 26, 3-65

26. sa sunus mans atgibada du ushramjan. 3 þanuh . . . . 65 . . . . þaurbum
weitwode? sai, nu gahausideduþ þo wajamerein is.


Op woensdag 14 januari 2015 heeft Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com> het
volgende geschreven:
> I just found out that a lot of Bible parts are missing, some sentences of
the 4 major books are missing too. If anyone is willing to actively help,
that would be great. I want to thank thiudans for all his hard work, thanks
to him there is at least one big major part in the bible, written by Paul,
which doesn't need translation anymore. Here are some things which need
translation:
>
> Matthew chapter 2 - 4, chapter 1 is already translated by matthew carver.
> Chapter 5, phrases 1-15
> Chapter 7, 1-12
> Chapter 10, 1-23
>
>
> Op dinsdag 13 januari 2015 heeft Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com> het
volgende geschreven:
>> I made improvements to the Corinthians text and it's in line with the
Greek text now, I also looked up most Greek words with Wulfila.be to get a
correct outcome:
>> 1 Jah ik qumans du izwis, broþrum, ni qam bi maht waurdis aiþþau
handugein, merjands izwis weitwodein Gudis.
>> 2 Ni auk ik gawalida waiht witan bi izwis inuh Iesu Xristu, jah sah
ushramiþs.
>> 3 Jah ik in unhailja jah ogjands jah reirands abraba was miþ izwis;
>> 4 jah waurd mein jah wailamerein meina ni was in gakunda mannan
handugeins waurda, ak in taikneina Ahmins jah mahteis;
>> 5 ei galaubeins izwara ni sijai in handugein manne, ak in mahta Gudis.
>> 6 Iþ handugei rodjam bi usfullidedans; iþ handugei ni aiwis þis, nih
reikinonde þis ionis manne inuh maht.
>> 7 Akei rodjam handugei Gudis in runa, ains affilhands, saei Guþ satida
faura aiwam faur wulþau unsaris;
>> 8 Saei ni reikinonde aiwis þis kunþa. Iþ auk kunþedun, ni waurþi Fraujan
wulþaus ushramidedun.
>> 9 Akei swa gameliþ ist, Saei augon ni saƕ, jah auson ni hausida, jah in
hairtin mans ni urran þoei satida Guþ þaim frijondam Is.
>> 10  Iþ auk andhulida Guþ þairh Ahman. Sa auk ahma allos waihts sokida,
jah diupei Gudis.
>> 11 Saei auk kuneiþu mans waihts, inuh ahman mans, saei in imma? Swa jah
waihts Gudis ni manna kuneiþ, niba ahman Gudis.
>> 12 Iþ weis, ni ahman fairƕaus andnemum, ak ahma, saei fram Guda, ei
kunnaima waihts þairh Guþ gibanos du unsis.
>> 13 In þammei jah weis ni rodjam laisida þairh mans handugeins waurda, ak
in laisidaim Ahmins; in ahmeinaim haidum ahmeinos waihts fraþanos.
>> 14 Wists iþ manna ni andnimiþ þoei ahmins Gudis; Dwalos auk Imma sind,
jah ni mahts ist ins witan, ahmeino auk gasokidai sind.
>> 15 Iþ saei ahmeina gasokeiþ allis, aþþan is silba ni manna gasokeiþ.
>> 16 saei auk kunþa muneis Is? Saei laiseiþ ina? Aþþan weis ahman Xristaus
habam.
>> used source: http://biblehub.com/interlinear/study/1_corinthians/2.htm
>> 2015-01-09 15:59 GMT+01:00 Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> I just asked permission to add those phrases to the project. I 'll wait
until I get a reply before I add them to the Bible Reconstruction Project.
>>> 2015-01-09 15:52 GMT+01:00 Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> I found an online reconstruction of the Codex Gissensis in an article
by Magnus Snaedal:
https://www.academia.edu/871989/The_Gothic_Text_of_Codex_Gissensis
>>>> I 'll add it to the Bible Reconstruction project files.
>>>> 2015-01-09 15:33 GMT+01:00 Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Edmund, I will translate all instances of wisdom with handugei
and when Koebler mentions a word with  * ?, I 'll not use it, as you
explain quite well why these words can be misleading.
>>>>> I have already translated this part of Corinthians. I 'll take a look
over it all again and look up the Greek words from the Greek version in
Wulfila.be, in that way I can check which words corresponds best to the
words in this part of Corinthians.
>>>>> Especially for future purposes, I think it's worth it to try to
translate the missing parts, so although not everything is attested, I
don't think that we should lose our motivation to translate the rest, as a
full New Testament in Gothic might be valuable to future generations,
especially if the wish of some of us to have church services in Gothic
changes in more than a dream and can be realized, we'll need a full new
testament, although some parts are reconstructed.
>>>>> 2015-01-09 0:50 GMT+01:00 edmundfairfax at yahoo.ca [gothic-l] <
gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the (many) problems with Koebler's dictionary is the
overanaylsis of words and then the listing of the broken-down elements
separately as if there were in fact attested independent elements. (Since
'undar-' is a well-attested morpheme, he assumes then that weisei must have
been a separate element.) The danger in this approach becomes most apparent
when applied to a more familiar language, namely, Mod. English, such that
one analyzes 'werewolf' as consisting of two independent nouns, and then
list 'were' as an independent substantive, which it, of course, is not; or
alternatively take 'cranberry' and list 'cran' as a separate noun as well.
Such a method is outrightly misleading about usage. There is simply no
guarantee that weisei was an independent word in Wulfilian Gothic. And it
seems unwarranted to use it as such simply because of Koebler's
questionable lexicographical practices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to 'frodei,' it translates 'sophia' (L2,52) only once; more often
it corresponds to 'intellect, understanding, sensibleness, prudence.' And
'snutrei' is extant only twice. In contrast, 'handugei' translates 'sophia'
eighteen times. Thus, it seems fairly clear that the word of choice to
translate 'sophia' / 'wisdom' is in fact handugei.
>>>>>> Edmund
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---In Gothic-L at yahoogroups.com, <anheropl0x at ...> wrote :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I might point out, Edmund, Köbler's dictionary does have handugei
as wisdom. As well as snutrei, (theoretical) weisei, and frodei.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/gothic-l/attachments/20150114/46ed5f12/attachment.htm>