[gothic-l] Translating the New Testament into Gothic

Wed Jan 14 11:16:35 UTC 2015

One correction:

The disciples are of course accusative.

Chapter 5 Matthew

1. jah gafastands manageins, urrais in fairgunja. Jah sitands, gaqemun du
Imma siponjos seinans.
2. jah uslukands munþs seins, laisida ins, qiþands,
3. audagai audagai unledans ahmin, unte im ist þiudangardi himine.
4. audagai wopjandans, unte gaþlaihanda.
5. audagai mildans, unte arbjand airþa.
6. audagai gredagans jah þaursiþans faur garaihtein, auk usfullaina.

Op woensdag 14 januari 2015 heeft Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com> het
volgende geschreven:
> Chapter 5 Matthew
>
>
> 1. jah gafastands manageins, urrais in fairgunja. Jah sitands, gaqemun du
Imma siponjos seinai.
> 2. jah uslukands munþs seins, laisida ins, qiþands,
> 3. audagai audagai unledans ahmin, unte im ist þiudangardi himine.
> 4. audagai wopjandans, unte gaþlaihanda.
> 5. audagai mildans, unte arbjand airþa.
> 6. audagai gredagans jah þaursiþans faur garaihtein, auk usfullaina.
>
> Op woensdag 14 januari 2015 heeft Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com> het
volgende geschreven:
>> Matthew 12-24
>> Matthew 25, 1-37
>> Matthew 26, 3-65
>>
>> 26. sa sunus mans atgibada du ushramjan. 3 þanuh . . . . 65 . . . .
þaurbum weitwode? sai, nu gahausideduþ þo wajamerein is.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Op woensdag 14 januari 2015 heeft Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com> het
volgende geschreven:
>>> I just found out that a lot of Bible parts are missing, some sentences
of the 4 major books are missing too. If anyone is willing to actively
help, that would be great. I want to thank thiudans for all his hard work,
thanks to him there is at least one big major part in the bible, written by
Paul, which doesn't need translation anymore. Here are some things which
need translation:
>>>
>>> Matthew chapter 2 - 4, chapter 1 is already translated by matthew
carver.
>>> Chapter 5, phrases 1-15
>>> Chapter 7, 1-12
>>> Chapter 10, 1-23
>>>
>>>
>>> Op dinsdag 13 januari 2015 heeft Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com> het
volgende geschreven:
>>>> I made improvements to the Corinthians text and it's in line with the
Greek text now, I also looked up most Greek words with Wulfila.be to get a
correct outcome:
>>>> 1 Jah ik qumans du izwis, broþrum, ni qam bi maht waurdis aiþþau
handugein, merjands izwis weitwodein Gudis.
>>>> 2 Ni auk ik gawalida waiht witan bi izwis inuh Iesu Xristu, jah sah
ushramiþs.
>>>> 3 Jah ik in unhailja jah ogjands jah reirands abraba was miþ izwis;
>>>> 4 jah waurd mein jah wailamerein meina ni was in gakunda mannan
handugeins waurda, ak in taikneina Ahmins jah mahteis;
>>>> 5 ei galaubeins izwara ni sijai in handugein manne, ak in mahta Gudis.
>>>> 6 Iþ handugei rodjam bi usfullidedans; iþ handugei ni aiwis þis, nih
reikinonde þis ionis manne inuh maht.
>>>> 7 Akei rodjam handugei Gudis in runa, ains affilhands, saei Guþ satida
faura aiwam faur wulþau unsaris;
>>>> 8 Saei ni reikinonde aiwis þis kunþa. Iþ auk kunþedun, ni waurþi
Fraujan wulþaus ushramidedun.
>>>> 9 Akei swa gameliþ ist, Saei augon ni saƕ, jah auson ni hausida, jah
in hairtin mans ni urran þoei satida Guþ þaim frijondam Is.
>>>> 10  Iþ auk andhulida Guþ þairh Ahman. Sa auk ahma allos waihts sokida,
jah diupei Gudis.
>>>> 11 Saei auk kuneiþu mans waihts, inuh ahman mans, saei in imma? Swa
jah waihts Gudis ni manna kuneiþ, niba ahman Gudis.
>>>> 12 Iþ weis, ni ahman fairƕaus andnemum, ak ahma, saei fram Guda, ei
kunnaima waihts þairh Guþ gibanos du unsis.
>>>> 13 In þammei jah weis ni rodjam laisida þairh mans handugeins waurda,
ak in laisidaim Ahmins; in ahmeinaim haidum ahmeinos waihts fraþanos.
>>>> 14 Wists iþ manna ni andnimiþ þoei ahmins Gudis; Dwalos auk Imma sind,
jah ni mahts ist ins witan, ahmeino auk gasokidai sind.
>>>> 15 Iþ saei ahmeina gasokeiþ allis, aþþan is silba ni manna gasokeiþ.
>>>> 16 saei auk kunþa muneis Is? Saei laiseiþ ina? Aþþan weis ahman
Xristaus habam.
>>>> used source: http://biblehub.com/interlinear/study/1_corinthians/2.htm
>>>> 2015-01-09 15:59 GMT+01:00 Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> I just asked permission to add those phrases to the project. I 'll
wait until I get a reply before I add them to the Bible Reconstruction
Project.
>>>>> 2015-01-09 15:52 GMT+01:00 Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I found an online reconstruction of the Codex Gissensis in an
article by Magnus Snaedal:
https://www.academia.edu/871989/The_Gothic_Text_of_Codex_Gissensis
>>>>>> I 'll add it to the Bible Reconstruction project files.
>>>>>> 2015-01-09 15:33 GMT+01:00 Dicentis a <roellingua at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Edmund, I will translate all instances of wisdom with
handugei and when Koebler mentions a word with  * ?, I 'll not use it, as
you explain quite well why these words can be misleading.
>>>>>>> I have already translated this part of Corinthians. I 'll take a
look over it all again and look up the Greek words from the Greek version
in Wulfila.be, in that way I can check which words corresponds best to the
words in this part of Corinthians.
>>>>>>> Especially for future purposes, I think it's worth it to try to
translate the missing parts, so although not everything is attested, I
don't think that we should lose our motivation to translate the rest, as a
full New Testament in Gothic might be valuable to future generations,
especially if the wish of some of us to have church services in Gothic
changes in more than a dream and can be realized, we'll need a full new
testament, although some parts are reconstructed.
>>>>>>> 2015-01-09 0:50 GMT+01:00 edmundfairfax at yahoo.ca [gothic-l] <
gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of the (many) problems with Koebler's dictionary is the
overanaylsis of words and then the listing of the broken-down elements
separately as if there were in fact attested independent elements. (Since
'undar-' is a well-attested morpheme, he assumes then that weisei must have
been a separate element.) The danger in this approach becomes most apparent
when applied to a more familiar language, namely, Mod. English, such that
one analyzes 'werewolf' as consisting of two independent nouns, and then
list 'were' as an independent substantive, which it, of course, is not; or
alternatively take 'cranberry' and list 'cran' as a separate noun as well.
Such a method is outrightly misleading about usage. There is simply no
guarantee that weisei was an independent word in Wulfilian Gothic. And it
seems unwarranted to use it as such simply because of Koebler's
questionable lexicographical practices.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As to 'frodei,' it translates 'sophia' (L2,52) only once; more
often it corresponds to 'intellect, understanding, sensibleness, prudence.'
And 'snutrei' is extant only twice. In contrast, 'handugei' translates
'sophia' eighteen times. Thus, it seems fairly clear that the word of
choice to translate 'sophia' / 'wisdom' is in fact handugei.
>>>>>>>> Edmund
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---In Gothic-L at yahoogroups.com, <anheropl0x at ...> wrote :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I might point out, Edmund, Köbler's dictionary does have
handugei as wisdom. As well as snutrei, (theoretical) weisei, and frodei.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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