Yakhontov

[Ralf-Stefan Georg]

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:01:56 +0100
>To: manaster at umich.edu
>From: Ralf-Stefan Georg <Georg at home.ivm.de>
>Subject: Re: Yakhontov
>Cc:
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>>Actually, what Starostin (1991) has, though, is something quite different:
>>
>>"But if the percentage of matches (Russian: sovpadenij) is identical [sc.
>>in both sublists--AMR] or the percentage of matches (Russian: sovpadenij)
>>the 35-word list is less than (or equal to) the proportion of phonetic
>>resemblances in the 65-word list, then the parallelism (Russian:
>>skhodstvo) between the languages is accidental (i.e., there exists an
>>accidental coincidence [Russian: sovpadenie] or the result of active
>>contacts and borrowings."
>>
>>If I am not mistaken, this means that the second claim is not really
>>separate claim at all.  It says the same thing as claim 1, viz., that
>>related
>>languages are supposed to look a certain way, but it is not stated or
>>logically implied that languages that look that way must be related.
>>
>>
>>Moreover, Larry makes an even bigger mistake (or else someone again
>>misinformed him about what Starostin says).  Specifically, he claims that
>>the Yakhontov method is to look at superficial phonetic similarities.
>>However, Starostin (p. 25-26) clearly says that he (Starostin) is looking
>>at matches based on sound correspondences and all other claims of the
>>Altaic theory (such as morphological analysis, etymology, etc.)
>

I'm the misinformer. My translation of the crucial passage was : " If two
languages are indeed related, the number ("procent") of matches in the
35-words-list has to be higher than in the rest of the 100-words-list. If
the number of matches is equal (or higher in the 65-l. than in the 35-l.)
the resemblance of the two languages is fortuitous (i.e. either completely
fortuitous or the result of active contacts and borrowing)."
>
>I translated "sovpadenie" by "match" and, towards the end of the sentence,
>"skhodstvo mezhdu jazykami" as "resemblance of the languages", since that
>is obviously to be understood here. It is not defined in this passage what
>a "sovpadenie" means, so "match" is the fairest of translations. If the
>test reveals nagative results, then the languages show some "skhodstvo",
>but it is not significant, according to Yakhontov, consequently the
>translation "resemblance" is warranted.
>
>That Starostin works within a framework where "resemblances" don't count,
>but is looking for regular correspondances is clear from the rest of the
>book and, I thought, was well-known. Whether this attempt was successful
>is a different question (but, please, don't forget that the book does
>*not* contain any morphology, since Starostin says a) that it has been
>done elsewhere (although in a framework completely different from his own,
>by Baskakov) and b) in a somewhat difficult and possibly garbled passage,
>he says that typology is not useful for classification "*and therefore*
>I'm not going to treat morphology"; though I could have misunderstood this
>passage).
>
>
>I stay out of the discussion of the Yakhontov test, but please note that
>his formulation implies what seems to be a method of asserting
>non-relatedness, as is quite clear from both your and my translation. If
>the percentages work out a certain way, then the languages look similar
>fortuitously or due to contact. I'd not subscribe to either part of this
>principle, but the stage is yours.
>
>

Stefan Georg
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