[HPSG-L] Highly ambiguous sentences with lots of quantifier scoipings and psycholinguistic work on underspeification
Roussanka Loukanova
rloukanova at gmail.com
Tue Mar 11 12:19:33 UTC 2025
Hi Rui,
Which is your paper? Better, I'd appreciate its .bib entry.
In the TTAR / TTAA, the different scopings, e.g., in the examples you
provide, can be or are denotationally equivalent, while not (all are)
algorithmically equivalent. But this is just by a quick look at them. At
some point, I'll look into rendering them in TTAR.
It would be best if you quickly write a draft, at most 10 pages, and submit
it to CLIRAI at DCAI'25 - see the CfP I posted here.
And, a similar encouragement to all of you, on the topics of CLIRAI!
Best Regards,
Roussanka
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 at 12:59, Rui Chaves <rchaves at buffalo.edu> wrote:
> Stefan,
> It’s even worse than that. You don’t need different quantifiers. Every
> single NP in the sentence can have an existential quantifier, and the
> number of scopings still explodes. It’s just that all the scopings will be
> equivalent to each other!
>
> “A cat chased a rat”
> Exists x (cat(x) & Exists y(rat(y) & chase(x,y)))
> is equivalent to
> Exists y (rat(y) & Exists x(cat(x) & chase(x,y)))
>
> Now imagine a sentence with 10 existentials, thousands of logical
> formulas, all equivalent.
>
> I had an ESSLLI paper about this, proposing a way to avoid redundant
> scopings, and then Markus Egg improved on the technique.
>
> --
> Rui P. Chaves (he/him)
> Chair and Professor of Linguistics
> Director of Undergraduate and Graduate Studies for the Computational
> Linguistics BS and MS Programs
> University at Buffalo, SUNY
> https://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~rchaves/
>
>
>
> From: HPSG-L <hpsg-l-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of
> Stefan Müller <St.Mueller at hu-berlin.de>
> Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 7:21 AM
> To: Emily M. Bender <ebender at uw.edu>
> Cc: hpsg-l at listserv.linguistlist.org <HPSG-L at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Subject: Re: [HPSG-L] Highly ambiguous sentences with lots of quantifier
> scoipings and psycholinguistic work on underspeification
> Thanks Emily,
>
> Wow! 10^12 readings! This is indeed impressive. But the sentence is not:
>
> Myrdal is the mountain terminus of the Flåm rail line (or Flåmsbana)
> which makes its way down the lovely Flåm Valley (Flåmsdalen) to its
> sea-level terminus at Flåm.
>
> I guess a lot of the ambiguity is caused by using generalized
> quantifiers for proper names and they should not scope with respect to
> each other. So it is an engineering problem, although an interesting
> one. Utool has some trick to cope with such unwanted ambiguities. There
> is some way to specify equivalences. I forgot how it works but want to
> find out.
>
> So what I am looking for is something like:
>
> Every daughter of an employee with at least four children knows somebody
> with a daughter who owns a pony.
>
> But naturally occurring and with lots of scopings. It would be fine if
> it were only a million readings. =:-)
>
> Something that convinces semanticsist or at least students that
> underspecification is a good thing to have. =:-)
>
> Best
>
> Stefan
>
>
> Am 10.03.25 um 15:35 schrieb Emily M. Bender:
> > Hi Stefan, Hi all,
> >
> > Regarding computational processing of scope ambiguities I think you're
> > thinking of the work of Koller & Thater on Utool:
> >
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faclanthology.org%2FP05-3003.pdf&data=05%7C02%7Crchaves%40buffalo.edu%7Cf6aa58da456645e43cdc08dd608eb753%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638772888770847945%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hcI%2BVoOQnDjUpYgBFQ%2FRMdmQrsVauuexPquSstZlAIw%3D&reserved=0
> <https://aclanthology.org/P05-3003.pdf>
> >
> > Those impressive numbers involved the ERG, not the Grammar Matrix nor
> > small grammars derived from it. (Though in principle, Utool should be
> > compatible with Matrix-derived grammars.)
> >
> > Emily
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 6:46 AM Stefan Müller
> > <St.Mueller at hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, I expected that this is true and that people will not sit
> > there and
> > imagine all the 20.000 possible worlds that correspond to the
> > readings.
> > But what do I know? I am not a psycholinguist.
> >
> > And after all our world turned into an impossible world due to
> > unpredictable behavior of my fellow humans. By now I expect them
> > to do
> > strange things.
> >
> > Thanks for all the answers! This is enourmously helpful.
> >
> > I will post a summary.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Stefan
> >
> > Am 10.03.25 um 14:35 schrieb Rui Chaves:
> > >
> > > There’s also the anecdotal fact that people who read a 80-word
> > > sentence in a newspaper don’t spend 30 minutes parsing it.
> > >
> > > 😊
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rui P. Chaves (he/him)
> > > Chair and Professor of Linguistics, University at Buffalo, SUNY
> > > Director of Graduate and Undergraduate Studies for the
> > Computational
> > > Linguistics Program
> > >
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.acsu.buffalo.edu%2F*rchaves%2F__%3Bfg!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!mPAi5C1HHo3E9FbgFknLV1atAM-iwf0T-92yDt4r8e8_3IBw6V8u0JA2FXttB3auQ2jHnpfjZ6sxcWf8CzIEY6M%24&data=05%7C02%7Crchaves%40buffalo.edu%7Cf6aa58da456645e43cdc08dd608eb753%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638772888770875115%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=R%2BkwlW9u2GyfnswCLBU2MrJEBDnneYWx49C1%2Fu%2BdeL4%3D&reserved=0
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> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/*rchaves/__;fg!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!mPAi5C1HHo3E9FbgFknLV1atAM-iwf0T-92yDt4r8e8_3IBw6V8u0JA2FXttB3auQ2jHnpfjZ6sxcWf8CzIEY6M$
> >
> >
> > >
> > > *From: *Rui Chaves <rchaves at buffalo.edu>
> > > *Date: *Monday, March 10, 2025 at 8:33 AM
> > > *To: *Roussanka Loukanova <rloukanova at gmail.com>, Stefan Müller
> > > <St.Mueller at hu-berlin.de>
> > > *Cc: *hpsg-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
> > <HPSG-L at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> > > *Subject: *Re: [HPSG-L] Highly ambiguous sentences with lots of
> > > quantifier scoipings and psycholinguistic work on underspeification
> > >
> > > Dear Stefan,
> > >
> > > There is evidence that comprehenders don’t compute all scopings:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fjournals.plos.org%2Fplosone%2Farticle%3Fid%3D10.1371*journal.pone.0081461__%3BLw!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!mPAi5C1HHo3E9FbgFknLV1atAM-iwf0T-92yDt4r8e8_3IBw6V8u0JA2FXttB3auQ2jHnpfjZ6sxcWf88ly5M3E%24&data=05%7C02%7Crchaves%40buffalo.edu%7Cf6aa58da456645e43cdc08dd608eb753%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638772888770888609%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=q0r%2F8JcvKy4WXh2Z5i63wDNJPOUMWQA5bS%2FHiuA1sG8%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371*journal.pone.0081461__;Lw!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!mPAi5C1HHo3E9FbgFknLV1atAM-iwf0T-92yDt4r8e8_3IBw6V8u0JA2FXttB3auQ2jHnpfjZ6sxcWf88ly5M3E$
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Rui P. Chaves (he/him)
> > > Chair and Professor of Linguistics
> > > Director of Undergraduate and Graduate Studies for the
> > Computational
> > > Linguistics BS and MS Programs
> > >
> > > University at Buffalo, SUNY
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.acsu.buffalo.edu%2F*rchaves%2F__%3Bfg!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!mPAi5C1HHo3E9FbgFknLV1atAM-iwf0T-92yDt4r8e8_3IBw6V8u0JA2FXttB3auQ2jHnpfjZ6sxcWf8CzIEY6M%24&data=05%7C02%7Crchaves%40buffalo.edu%7Cf6aa58da456645e43cdc08dd608eb753%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638772888770902014%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rvWwiqR2Oj5vC1%2BvadTbHCUvIjlXpRdXJoKMtRC%2Bado%3D&reserved=0
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> >
> >
> > >
> > <
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.acsu.buffalo.edu%2F*rchaves%2F__%3Bfg!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!mPAi5C1HHo3E9FbgFknLV1atAM-iwf0T-92yDt4r8e8_3IBw6V8u0JA2FXttB3auQ2jHnpfjZ6sxcWf8CzIEY6M%24&data=05%7C02%7Crchaves%40buffalo.edu%7Cf6aa58da456645e43cdc08dd608eb753%7C96464a8af8ed40b199e25f6b50a20250%7C0%7C0%7C638772888770914902%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Wi5HIJId8AZt%2FjLbDnxM1T45UJsVzUGhaDg2c%2B5%2FsVc%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > >
> > > *From: *HPSG-L <hpsg-l-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on
> > behalf of
> > > Roussanka Loukanova <rloukanova at gmail.com>
> > > *Date: *Monday, March 10, 2025 at 8:25 AM
> > > *To: *Stefan Müller <St.Mueller at hu-berlin.de>
> > > *Cc: *hpsg-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
> > <HPSG-L at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> > > *Subject: *Re: [HPSG-L] Highly ambiguous sentences with lots of
> > > quantifier scoipings and psycholinguistic work on underspeification
> > >
> > > Hi Stefan,
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > >
> > > Your questions are extra interesting. I'm very much interested
> > in the
> > > answers.
> > >
> > > And, of course, I'm looking forward to your revised HPSG book!
> > >
> > > I work on Type Theory of Recursion, including its varieties of
> > Type Theory
> > > of Acyclic Recursion / Algorithms (TTAR / TTAA). TTAR provides
> > > mathematical and algorithmic foundations of Syntax-Semantics
> > (SynSem) in
> > > Computational Grammars (CompGrs).
> > >
> > > The relational extensions of TTAA to Dependent-Type Theory of
> > Situated
> > > Info
> > > (DTTSI) directly provides math, i.e., algorithmic foundations,
> > of MRS and
> > > its SynSem in HPSG.
> > >
> > > In all the versions of TTAR / TTAA and DTTSI, I include
> > > underspecification.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Roussanka
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 10 Mar 2025 at 12:22, Stefan Müller
> > <St.Mueller at hu-berlin.de>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I remember that people working with the grammar matrix and
> > large scale
> > > > implementations reported natural occurring sentence with an
> > enormous
> > > > amount of readings. Something in the range of 100.000
> > scopings. Is this
> > > > documented somewhere in print?
> > > >
> > > > Is there psycholinguistic research showing that humans do not
> > work with
> > > > specific readings but leave scopings underspecified (maybe to
> > a certain
> > > > extend).
> > > >
> > > > I am revising my HPSG textbook and switching to MRS in this
> > book now, so
> > > > I am interested in this kind of information.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks a lot.
> > > >
> > > > Best wishes
> > > >
> > > > Stefan
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > HPSG-L mailing list
> > > > HPSG-L at listserv.linguistlist.org
> > > >
> > >
> >
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> > >
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> > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > HPSG-L mailing list
> > > HPSG-L at listserv.linguistlist.org
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