Names

[Andre Cramblit]

I sent it to Bill and to our Tribal Linguist/language Program  
Director Susan Gehr , will post any replies they may have

On Apr 25, 2006, at 7:00 AM, Mia Kalish wrote:

I don't actually know him, although I am familiar with some of his  
work in
Karuk. I have the Karuk dictionary.

Perhaps you could forward this along to him? I would be interested to  
hear
what he says.

Freeman, by the way, was a cognitive neurobiologist. In fact, he  
still is,
at maybe UCLA. Lakoff is famous for his work in English metaphors.  
Turner is
a cognitive psychologist, while Nuñez is multidisciplinary, with a  
degree in
psychology, and his work in metaphoric structures touching on computer
representation.

The discussion of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis was vicious, is still  
ongoing,
and is very detrimental to the view of American languages and the  
people who
spoke them. I would speculate that one of the great difficulties in
revitalization is that American languages are considered "worthless"  
because
they ostensibly "lack so many concepts". So as you can see,  
understanding
what Whorf was saying maybe be critical to language revitalization in  
a lot
of ways: Documentation, conceptualization, analysis.

I once sent out an email asking if there were math words in Ñdn  
languages,
and you sent back a note telling me that I would be able to find them  
using
Western concepts and direct translation. This is in fact correct, but  
what I
began to realize from this and other responses is that despite the vast
physical representation of math and science around us, there is  
almost none
in the collected languages. And I said, Now why is that?

I think it's Powell, in his prescriptive 1880 document about words to be
collected. There are lots of anthropological categories, and none for  
math,
science, and technology. Ñdn astronomy and complex lunar calendricality
preceded Western accomplishments in these areas by hundreds, perhaps
thousands of years, but we hear nothing of it in the language in  
which the
knowledge developed.

So perhaps you should forward this along to him. Perhaps he would  
like to
join our list and have a discussion with the other people here as  
well. I
would speculate that a lot of our list would much appreciate the
opportunity. I know I would.

Best,
Mia




Mia

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology  
[mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Andre Cramblit
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:01 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Names

I am not a linguist and not reviewed the works you cite.  Maybe your
should bring it up with Bill


On Apr 24, 2006, at 8:51 PM, Mia Kalish wrote:

You know, Andre, I really hate to do this. I know how important William
Bright is to the documentation of Northwest languages, but I think
that this
is an incorrect interpretation of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. What
Bright is
saying is very similar to the idea popular in the 1970s that cognitive
conceptualizations in the brain resembled the objects themselves.
This still
shows up in philosophy and psychology of consciousness. However, the
idea
has been debunked. Walter J. Freeman demonstrated that when creatures
create
meaning, the conceptual meaning structures are unique to the
individual, not
to the stimulus.

Thus, while language and culture are closely linked, intertwined for all
time, how they EXPRESS is a function of the relationship, not of the
linguistic forms. What Whorf was saying parallels the theories that
Lakoff
began to develop relating to cultural metaphors. Thirty or forty years
later, Fauconnier and Turner, and Nuñez and Lakoff have developed
structures
that show these relational structures. Whorf was saying that semantic
objects are not going to spring up like mushrooms after a rain if
there is
no need for them in the culture. He was also saying that language
will have
references for all the things, physical and conceptual, that are
needed in
the culture. Hence the discussion of snow and sweet potatoes.

There was a lot of misunderstanding because of the Hopi-Time fiasco.
Hopi
has words for Time. So does Diné Bizaad. They just show up in ways very
different from how they show up (express) in English, and so English
speakers who have no idea of the differences in internal structure miss
them. Margaret Mead said something very similar to this, except she was
talking about humor.

Looking at anthropological aspects is a bit tawdry these days, in poor
taste, rather. How about the register of boat construction? House
construction? Tool making? Navigation?

I am reading the hardest book I ever read. It's edited by Marijo
Moore and
its called Genocide of the Mind. The hardest, hardest chapter so far
is by
Dave Stephenson. He's Tlingit. He writes, "These are our memories,
and we
struggle to retain them against a ferocious undertow of cruelty and
mass-marketed sophistry. Material pursuits and solitary avarice are
methodologically engendering a great forgetting. We are slowly losing
our
memories and sections of our souls" (p. 96). His chapter is called,
America's Urban Youth and the Importance of Remembering.

So I have to say, this isn't right, describing languages as being
composed
of some "unanalyzable morphemes", some descriptive combinations in
warning
quotes, and some other combination of both of these <presumably
undesirable>
characteristics. Further, there is the really questionable premise of
"status" being constructed of "areas". Math --> social psychology.
(Not).
And what does that mean, anyway, "status of native northwestern
California
not as a linguistic area in a strict sense, but as an ethnolinguistic
area".

Maybe we could retitle the abstract, Karuk Resonances And Pre-modernity.

Mia


-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
[mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Andre Cramblit
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:16 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [ILAT] Names

“ANALYZABILITY” OF NOUNS IN NORTHWESTERN CALIFORNIA
William Bright
University of Colorado
www.ncidc.org/bright/

Abstract

Three American Indian tribes of northwestern California — Yurok,
Hupa, and Karuk — share a nearly uniform culture, but they speak
entirely distinct and unrelated languages. This is problematic for
the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis, which sees language and culture as
closely linked. In an earlier paper, the matter was considered in the
light of names for animals in the three languages. It was found that
the majority of such names in Yurok consist of unanalyzable single
morphemes, while the majority in Hupa are “descriptive” combinations
of several morphemes; the Karuk language lies between the two others.
A possible explanation was proposed in the historical operation of
verbal taboo in the usage of hunters and on the names of the
deceased. In the present paper, the analysis is extended to plant
terms and to “basic vocabulary”,  but problems are noted in the
latter concept. It is suggested that the patterns presented here form
part of the status of native northwestern California not as a
linguistic area in a strict sense, but as an ethnolinguistic area.