Unlocking the secret sounds of language

[Mia Kalish]

Hi, Richard, 

I am selling some books on Amazon, and waiting for one of the pages to come
up. 

The questions you ask remind me of the to-ing and fro-ing of discussions of
the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. :-) 

In my research, I started by developing a "sieve" of words in English and in
Dine Bizaad to catch materials with mathematical concepts. I used some
papers from the Mathematics and Literature conference in Mykonos, Greece,
last summer. From a paper written by Zizzi on statistical terms in stories,
I collected 35-40 conceptual words in English. I found matches to only 3 of
these in my Diné Bizaad dictionaries. 

However, when I looked at Diné Bizaad directly, I found: 
	1) That math terms related to shape, count and frequency are
embedded in the grammar; 
	2) That a mathematical process that is used in application systems
development, commonly called cascading or waterfall, is embedded in the
culture and ways of knowing. 

I also think 2 other things about "words": 
	1) Words exist if people use them; usage is group-related. This
means that if I use the word onomatopoeia this DOES NOT mean that use of the
word is endemic to a) my family; b) my friends; c) my community; d) my
community at large. 
	2) No single person or even a group of people from the same locale
(see item 1, above) knows all the words in a language. I believe that the
beliefs in the general distribution of language concepts has mislead a great
number of people studying language. I don't often see people talk about
register. I do see people deprecate register as "jargon" however. 
	3) My own personal bias is about fluency: I don't believe that
someone who can grunt "gimme 'nuther beer woodja!" should be considered
"fluent". 

On that note . . . 
Mia 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Richard Smith
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:23 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Unlocking the secret sounds of language

These are really insightful responses
I'm glad others are weighing these accepted practices
of members from this intrusive academia

I'm no linguist so I have a question.
Does the "lack" of a word for something mean it does not exist for a people?
I know where my "knee" is...but because the place behind the knee is unnamed
(except for some surgeons lingo) Does that place not exist?

Would people who have no words for past tense
be forced to live in a collective amnesia?

Will they then not "remember" the anthropologist when he visits again?
Just because they don't use past tense verbal expression?
If a child comes smiling and says: "you have popcorn?"
Wouldn't this mean its another way of expressing memory or past tense?

Maybe I'm not properly awed by Academia
I guess I just wonder sometimes
If the new sciences are not just refined systems of conquest
and ultimately...control.
richard


On 5/9/06 6:04 AM, "Jan Tucker" <jtucker at starband.net> wrote:

> In this article what caught my attention was that the only reason that was
> given for attending the "night school" was said to be getting together and
> popcorn and the reason for not attending was the concern that Everett was
> writing down the language [apparently not approved of by the people]. A
> clear preference for not doing so seemed to be expressed here YET the
> "missionary" now "ethnologists" is going back to bring in other's to
> "collect, process, unravel, unlock". Everett has clearly suggested that
the
> Pirahna stopped coming because of their concern for having the language
> written down. I think I'd take that as a serious determent against further
> "extractions".
> 
> Jan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Richard Zane Smith
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 1:42 PM
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] Unlocking the secret sounds of language (fwd)
> 
> 
> yes fascinating of course
> but what i find even more fascinating are these anthropologists!
> studying the Piraha mind like some NEW specimen,
> some unexplored mental territory to seize
> to collect,process,unravel,unlock, and file data on,
> to "reduce" another language to ink and paper writing
> and to wage proper war against any leading professors theories
> from within their lofty ivory towers of academia
> to proclaim the LATEST cutting edge conclusions
> yes
> very interesting critters these anthropologists
> i might have to get my own bug jar out
> and collect a few of these anthros.
> do a few experiments...
> hmm...what happens when you pull this?
> hmmm yes,very interesting...
> better write that one down...
> richard
> 
> Richard Zane Smith
> 18474 S.Cayuga Rd.
> Wyandotte Oklahoma
>                                   74370