Ojibwe Dictionary Online Project

Sat Sep 15 20:01:31 UTC 2007

Hi, People, 

I missed most of this discussion. (Maybe that was a good thing - :-); It’s
Saturday, I have a smidgen of humor to share). 

I would like to add something from a practitioner’s point of view (Everyone
knows I build learning materials to retain and revitalize language and
culture). 

Here it is: 

Using the Westernized “unification”/simplest explanation/Universal (read
“grammar” --> read Chomsky) etc, etc, etc SLOWS DOWN the actual use of
language in communities. 

It is my experience, which is reaching the 10 year mark at this point, that
looking for “The Right Word” or, “The Right Way to Say It” not only
misrepresents the essential nature of language, which frequently provides
many ways to reflect the sophisticated and sometimes moving perspectives of
living people, but also results both in endless meetings and endless
arguments. 

So, GO FOR IT. 37 dictionaries/syllabaries/collections of recordings is
infinitely better than 0 dictionaries/syllabaries/collections of recordings.

And if people Criticize: GOODY, at least they are Talking. Make them
criticize in the language you are working with. This is a whole new
dimension of experience. 

Mia Kalish

Director, Distance Ed

Diné College

Navajo Nation

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From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Joseph Lavalley
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:29 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Ojibwe Dictionary Online Project

Dear K. Brousseau,

It is not my contention to become political (that is a different arena then
mine and for the people to figure) or to impose a system that is acceptable
to all Anishnabek. It is my contention to however to create the forum and a
base for that to occur naturally, based on as many Anishnabek nations as
possible. The Anishnabek consists of the Three Fires Confederacy (Ojibwe,
Pottawatomi and Ottawa). From that there is a existing political structure
so there is no need for unification of those political bodies and continued
division of extant individual communities (Sovereign Nations) therein.

This project is about culture and understanding where one comes from. It is
about keeping a language from not being spoken but to reach out the young
that wish to retain their lanuguage, be it in the communities where they
live, rural or urban, to have a sense of identity more then just, 'I am a
First Nations person or I am Indian or I am Aboriginal. I am not concerned
with the political boundaries of Canada or United States or their state
boundaries or provincial ones. This is about being able to say a
thanksgiving in ones' own language, to smoke a pipe (Powagon) and to do
ceremonies. This is about being able to educate our children in their
language and if they wish to learn English as a trading language similar to
the Chinook language in BC. It is about being able to have self-esteem in
ones' culture and community, instead of being isolated and forgotten. It is
about a voice - called: Anishnawbemowin. With this project each community
can list their individual dialects and inflexions which makes them unique
and distinctive then the other communities. From there dialogue will ensue
and from that the basis for a unified Anishnabek language - writting system.
Created by the people, I am just getting it started. and it may take may
years, decades or centuries, but as long as someone starts it, it will be
fulfilled. It is for the people to decide, I am only a guide and think
nothing more of it.

As far as, using English lables for identification of nationality, that is
for the people to decide, or the individual, eventually the words will be
translated back into the symbology, gylphs, logos and so forth and our
written language will unite us as one people with different dialects and
different ideas, thus, culture will be renewed. Being a linguist with an
Anishnabe background will help in many ways, one, I will be able to
distinguish between two or more separate nations dialects and inflexions,
secondly, by understanding where they are coming from in terms of the
assimulation of our people, trust can be built and information transmitted
to me for dissemination to the masses online. Thirdly, with all communities
involved in this a sense of ownership of the language will bring forth new
generations of natural aboriginal speakers and from there unity. Fourthly,
by giving the people a road map to retain and enjoy their language, I am
fulfilling my duties to the Anishnabek as Mishomis.

Throughout this project I am sure that there will people that will oppose
what I am doing or try to keep or discourage me from doing this project by
whatever means at their disposal. I am not under the illusion that I can do
this project alone completely. I here to inspire those that are serious and
dedicated to completing this project so that Anishnabemowin will continue to
be spoken forever and that it is not lost in translation in Indo-European
thinking and philosophy. That we as a people can think very much for
ourselves and that our culture (old and new) will live on forever. With that
not end up as just footnotes in some PDF in the future.

At this point, I am not interested in unifying all the Algic family
languages. I am interested in specific ones and in the future it is for
someone else to unify the others. Be it Cree, Micmac, Blackfoot, Dene etc.
If this project unifies people then that is a positive thing and I for one
encourage that. If this project gives well-springs a renewed sense of
culture and social well-being; or a reawakening of old knowledge and lead to
new knowledge not seen or spoken of in thousands of year, I am in. For those
that wish not to discover themselves and understand their language, this
project is not for you. You may not be interested in this and perhaps your
energies should concentrate in other field where one can be useful. I am not
doing this for self-congratulations or to blow my own horn, this will first
and foremost, for the Anishnabek, their children (benogii) for all our
relations (Past, Present and the ones that have yet to be). Other then that
the world can go to hell in a handbasket if the politician do not like it.
This is my position until forever comes up and bites my shiney metal hiney.

Now without the tools available from Linguistics this project may as well
not exist. To be able to understand the oral, audio and the written of
people that took the time to write the grammarian, the othographies, the
dictionaries, the symbols of the modern alphabet from the genus of the
Phoenician alphabet, to do a comprehensive translation before all real oral
speaker references, is the job of the people who own that language namely
those of the Anishnabek. Of which, I am one, and have the honour, privilege
and duty to do this project, based on heredity, spiritual right and my the
validity of my name and family's place in Anishnabek culture and society.
And as such I have a vested interest in seeing this project to its end. OR,
my end whichever comes first.

It is never too late to change, but only wrong not to begin.

With compassion, love and understanding,

Joseph Brian Lavally - Mishomis dezhnikaz - Nme dodem (Grandfather is my
name - Sturgeon family, hereditary teachers) 

PS. This is not a remonstration of your opinion, but a response, don't feel
that this is a personal attack upon you this just clarifies my position and
commitment to this project and nothing more. - JBL

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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:02:55 -0400
From: brousseau_kevin at YAHOO.CA
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Ojibwe Dictionary Online Project
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU

One of the problems with a unified Anishnabe writting system is that the
language crosses a few provincial boundaries and state boudaries.
Researchers tend to focus on the language of one community or of a selected
area...which is fine and important in itself but the the research is rarely
done in the vision of a unified anishnabe language. 

Also, there isn t one anishnabe govt that represents all anishnabe people.
The most important thing in my opinion is starting a discussion  between all
anishnabe communities in order to agree on a writing system, which does not
necessarily have to be based on the roman alphabet or syllabics (which of
course everyone has an opinion about and might cause more divisions in the
process). 

This idea of a unified writting system is outside of the concern of
linguists in my opinion - it is a political issue. Anishnabe people
themselves need to take the initiative to form a united front (at least in
terms of language first). Identifying who is and speaks Anishnabe is the
prerequisite to acually forming political ties in the future. 

A linguist would not insist, for example, that a group should call itself
Anishnabe instead of their English labels (which of course are based on
native words), such as Ojibwe, Chippewa, saultaux, Algonquin, Oji-Cree,
etc... A unified writting system to a unified language - to a unified
people.

This is what should be done before a major project begins and people say it
is too late to change things, but this is just my opinion. 

Joseph Lavalley <graphfix at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:

Dear Mr. D. Osborn,

Glad you have some contacts in regards to dictionary project. Perhaps a
exchange of knowledge with them will provide me with a firmer ground to base
this Ojbiwe Dictionary project on. So far it seems so. Look forward to
speaking or having meaningful dialogue with someone who participated in it
structure and creation.

With great thanks, Chi-Miigwetch

Joseph Brian Lavalley - Mishomis dezhenkaz, Nme dodem

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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:18:08 -0400
From: dzo at BISHARAT.NET
Subject: Re: [ILAT] Ojibwe Dictionary Online Project
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU

Dear Joseph,

I can't speak to the issues of the Ojibwe language, but on the broader topic
of online "living" dictionaries will mention - in case it is of interest to
you and others on ILAT - that there is some interesting work ongoing and
being discussed for several African languages. 

* The ""Kamusi" online living Swahili dictionary has been evolving for
several years and, though currently at a moment of transition, is poised to
continue its development.

* Other dictionaries being developed by Kasahorow for Akan (Ghana) and Ewe
(Ghana/Togo)

* A larger project proposal is under discssion to facilitate among other
things, pairing of various African languages

Most of the languages concerned in the current efforts and discussions have
millions of speakers and sometimes considerable, if difficult to access,
published resources. So the context is somewhat different than what I
understand one would be dealinng with for a Native American language like
Ojibwe. Nevertheless, perhaps there could be some useful sharing of tools
and experience.

I'll cc Dr. Martin Benjamin (Kamusi) and Paa Kwesi Imbeah (kasahorow) for
their info.

All the best.

Don Osborn

Bisharat.net

PanAfriL10n.org

From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Joseph Lavalley
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:20 PM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [ILAT] Ojibwe Dictionary Online Project

To all interested colleagues,

Currently engaged in a online Ojibwe dictionary project and have been going
it alone for the last year and a half. Seeking interested persons who are
currently working on the Ojibwe language (Anishnawbemowin) and those who
have dictionary building experience.

So far using a 1975 reprint of a 1874 Ojibwe language dictionary listed as a
grammarian in a Bibliography of Algonquian Language as primary source to
create this hand typed (keyboarded) digitized dictionary into a website. The
dictionary is the one compiled by Wilson. The reprint was done by the
Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development Canada. The typeface
is approx. 6pt Times. I am currently work in Arial 12pt in Word. Would like
to do a cross comparison of other dictionaries extant from either English
and French texts past and present to do a complete analysis and
comprehensive re-working of Orthography, Phonetic soundings using voice
snippets from local oral speakers to establish universal Phonology and
Morphology.

To be honest and truthful to the fullest extent, I have no university
standing at this time, although I am currently applying to university to
become a Linguist. It is my hope that those that care about the educational
responsibilities to the children and people of the Anishnawbe will come
forth and help me in the vision of a unified Ojibwe oral, written and
symbolic system.

With a dream to fulfill in ones' lifetime, there is much to be done,

Miigwetch,

Joseph Brian Lavalley - Mishomis dezhnikaz, Nme dodem.

PS. Also, interested in making contact with John D. Nichols leading Algic
Family Language Specialist.

JBL

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