traditions of assimilation...

[Racquel]

I have found this conversation so enlightening.  Thank you, all, for providing different perspectives.  It's easy to get stuck in believing only one version of history, but this conversation has reminded me of how important it is to maintain an open mind.

-Racquel

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:26:14 -0200, Joseph Lavalley <graphfix at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
 
 
Ahnii, niichquay Rosalyn, 
> 
> When and if you do, I would like to see and read that long historical answer. 
> It should be interesting to hear someone else's point of view. Maybe there 
> is some value to the WHY fundamentalist Christians and Catholic communities 
> are the last bastion of indigenous languages across  the country. 
> 
> Niin sa, 
> 
> Mishomis dezhniikaz (Joseph Brian Lavalley ), Nme dodem 
> 
> 
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:37:07 -0500 
> From: rrlapier at AOL.COM 
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation... 
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU 
> 
> 
 
> I do not have time to discuss this in full right now. But it has been our experience (at Piegan Institute) that within our community the last stronghold of first language speakers is among the fundamentalist Christians (holy rollers)  and Catholic communities. Why? I could provide a long historical answer. But I won't right now. 
> 


 
>   
> 


 
> However, individuals from these communities have been the most helpful in revitalizing the Blackfeet language, working with our children, recording old stories, translating for us, etc. 
> 


 
>   
> 


 
> So the opposite is true in our community. It is within the devout Christian sects that the Blackfeet language continues and does not have an assimilationist  agenda.  
> 
 
> 
Each Indian community has its own unique history.  
> 


 
>   
> 


 
> Rosalyn LaPier 
> 
 
> 


 
> 
> 
 
> 
-----Original Message----- 
> 
From: Richard Smith <rzs at WILDBLUE.NET> 
> 
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU 
> 
Sent: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 9:41 am 
> 
Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation... 
> 
 
> 
 
> 


 
> Hi David, 
> 
 
> 
I think you raise an important topic towards revitalization. 
> 
Unfortunately people are easily made defensive about their own beliefs 
> 
This makes it difficult to discuss errors and offer possible solutions.  
> 
I personally don't know one Native American who "hates" Christ. 
> 
But its the multitude forms of   _ianity we have had so much difficulty with. 
> 
 
> 
One I have found so damaging are forms of "Replacement Theology" 
> 
Which is basicly an attempt to reshape people by  presenting 
> 
as "The Truth" a different foreign paradigm , from creation to afterlife. 
> 
We cannot automaticly doubt the sincerity of such proselytizers 
> 
because often they themselves are "the converted" and go to extraordinary 
> 
lengths and sacrifice to bring what they have been taught is "the gospel" 
> 
 
> 
I confess i didn't read the entire book.But i glimpsed through an account of 
> 
early Christian missionaries first encountering Hawaiians and I learned something.  
> 
These European Christians  had just sailed completely around S. America, were 
> 
suffering from scurvy, and food poisoning,and basicly were dying of malnutrition. 
> 
When they finally encountered the people of the island joyfully welcoming 
> 
them from their dugouts and on the beaches,the missionaries burst into tears 
> 
from the deck of the ship. Why were they weeping? 
> 
Because the islanders were "naked" and unaware their "sinful" condition. 
> 
 
> 
We may be tempted to snicker today, but this isn't the point at all. 
> 
I  think we should recognize this as what happens when two  
> 
extremely different paradigms collide.Problems happen when one group  
> 
comes with a belief that it must completely CHANGE the other group. 
> 
New creation stories, new values, new parables, new ideologies.  
> 
Islanders must now be taught about sheep,and of course ,camels, 
> 
or they will never understand the Good Shepherd or understand 
> 
how hard it is to put a camel through the Eye of the Needle. 
> 
 
> 
When a societies paradigms expand,  its simply healthy education.  
> 
Language expands and new ideas are added to what already exists. 
> 
I don't know of any indigenous people wishing to return to a stone age. 
> 
But when paradigms replace other paradigms,as in culture and theologies 
> 
Language itself begins to change from the inside out. 
> 
 
> 
just some thoughts to toss out there.... 
> 
Richard Zane Smith 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
On 2/16/08 2:03 PM, "David Lewis" < David.Lewis at GRANDRONDE.ORG > wrote: 
> 
 
> 
 
 I for one appreciate more dialogue about how Christians and other sects have contributed to the assimilation of Native peoples, which in turn has contributed to the extinction or near-extinction of many native languages. I too will use this in my classes. 
> 
 
> 
David G. Lewis 
> 
Manager, Cultural Resources Department 
> 
Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
-----Original Message----- 
> 
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology on behalf of Mark Sicoli 
> 
Sent: Sat 2/16/2008 12:49 PM 
> 
To:  ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU 
> 
Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation... 
> 
 
> 
Thank you Phil, well said.  The nationalist myth is based on a pervasive 
> 
ideology where a single language is taken (or given) as the symbol of a 
> 
singular identity.  The one language=one nation association goes  back to 
> 
nation-state building in Europe and the practices of linguistic 
> 
unifications, like in Spain, France, and Italy, and other such places 
> 
where vernacular languages were ideologically "erased" in the formation of 
> 
national unities.  These served as models for nation building in the 
> 
Americas and the ideology is real prominent in Mexico where I work, and 
> 
where language shifts from indigenous languages to Spanish are currently 
> 
occurring at unprecedented rates.  The same  basic ideology is at work 
> 
equating one language with one individual, which serves to work against 
> 
bilingualism and bilingual education, thus facilitating language 
> 
abandonment rather than bilingual maintenance.  For these reasons I agree 
> 
that this is a worthwhile discussion for this list. 
> 
 
> 
Mark 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
On Sat, February 16, 2008 9:02 pm, phil cash cash said: 
> 
> For the language advocates (LA) it might be worthwhile to point out these 
> 
> "assimilationist" agendas  are all founded on a nationalist myth.  In 
> 
> today's 
> 
> contemporary context, this nationalist myth states that our societies are 
> 
> or 
> 
> can become linguistically, culturally homogenous.  When in reality, this 
> 
> may 
> 
> be impossible. 
> 
> And as Richard points out so well, the nationalist myth (in what ever 
> 
> manifestation it may take) supports other agendas as well. 
> 
> Phil 
> 
> UofA 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
-- 
> 
Mark  Sicoli Ph.D. 
> 
Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics 
> 
Postbus 310 
> 
6500 AH Nijmegen 
> 
The Netherlands 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
 
> 
More new features than ever.  Check out the new  AOL Mail ! 
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--
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