Sociological Linguistics

[Patrick C. Ryan]

Dear Robert and IEists:

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Whiting <whiting at cc.helsinki.fi>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 1:34 PM

> On Tue, 18 May 1999, Patrick C. Ryan wrote:

>> Everything in life of which we have knowledge shows a development
>> from the simple to the complex.

> and then

> On Tue, 25 May 1999, Patrick C. Ryan wrote:

>> If we are going to keep coming back to "complex", perhaps you would care
>> to define it for us in terms of this discussion. I talked about ambiguity
>> not complexity.

Robert wrote:

> Thank you, Patrick.  Your posting shows more about you and your methods
> than I would ever care to put in print, and you have certainly made all
> my points for me.

Pat answers:

And thank you, Robert, for revealing your methods --- taking two postings,
which appeared a week apart, in different contexts, answering different
questions. Your scholarship must be a wonder to behold!

Robert continued:

> Just one thing though:  When you say

>      Gelb, under whom I studied, ...

> do you mean that he was your dissertation supvervisor or principal
> advisor, or that you took a course from him once, or that you saw him
> around the OI on occasion, or that you studied on the second floor
> while he worked on the third.

Pat responds:

You may conclude whatever you wish.

Robert, in no particular context:

> And I should answer your questions that stem from real ignorance
> rather than being rhetorical.

Pat foolishly asked:

>> But if you do not care to, tell me the word you would use to distinguish
>> between the semantic relationships of 'dog/cat' and 'cat/cats'.

Robert politely responded:

> I would use what everybody else who knows how to use a dictionary would
> use.  'Dog/cat' is an example of a difference in "lexical meaning":

>      lexical meaning n:  the meaning of the base (as in the word _play_)
>      in a paradigm (as _plays, played, playing_).
>                        Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary

> while 'cat/cats' is a difference in "grammatical meaning":

>      grammatical meaning n:  the part of meaning that varies from one
>      inflectional form to another (as from _plays_ to _played_ to
>      _playing_).
>                                      Ibid.

> So 'dog/cat' are lexically different and 'cat/cats' are grammatically
> different, but both pairs are semantically different (i.e., have
> different meanings).

Pat answers:

Thanks so much for a full exposition of your views. I will bear your
prefered usages in mind if you will do the same for mine.

Pat previously:

>> What is the method of marking the plural in Chinese nominal forms --
>> what other mechanism?

Robert answered:

> There are a number.  Most commonly there are "measure words" and
> "quantifiers."  Measure words are required between definite quantifiers
> (numbers) and nouns, but are usually optional (but sometimes required)
> after indefinite quantifiers (e.g., ji "some, a few," haoji "quite a few,"
> duo "many, much," etc. [tones not indicated]).  One can also use the
> quantifier one (plus measure word) to indicate the indefinite singular.
> Demonstratives can be marked for singular and plural by the use of measure
> words (-ge for singular, -xie for plural) and these demonstratives can be
> used together with nouns to indicate the number of the noun.  Also, the
> plural marker of pronouns (-men) is often used to mark the plural in nouns
> referring to groups or classes of people.

> Otherwise, singular and plural
> are generally determined from context, but if elimination of ambiguity is
> necessary, there are ways to accomplish it.

Pat responds:

That is precisely what I said.

Pat

PATRICK C. RYAN (501) 227-9947; FAX/DATA (501)312-9947 9115 W. 34th St.
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