Pre-Greek languages

[Stanley Friesen]

At 05:50 PM 10/13/99 +0100, Larry Trask wrote:
>Stanley Friesen writes:

>> And given that, again pace Renfrew, Anatolian almost certainly had to move
>> through the Balkans prior to Greek arrival *there*, let alone their arrival
>> in Greece proper, and that there is some evidence for a non-Greek IE
>> language in Greece in place names, the time scale is further constrained.

>Why?

>Why did Anatolian have to move through the Balkans?

Starting from the Ukraine, we have the following constraints:
A) there is no evidence of any IE languages ever having been in the
Caucasus prior to Armenian, making that route unlikely in the extreme.
B) cultures with written history predate the probable appearance of the
Hittites in Anatolian in Mesopotamia.  None of these written sources give
*any* indication of any likely pre-Anatolian people anywhere near
Mesopotamia.  (They do indicate an early appearance of proto-Iranian
peoples to the east of Mesopotamia)

>Even if you don't buy Anatolia as the PIE homeland, why couldn't Anatolian
>have entered Anatolia across the Caucasus or from east of the Caspian Sea,
>through Iran?

The first is made unlikely by the lack of IE-related cultural artifacts in
the Caucusus and the *total* lack of any pre-Armenian IE substratal
influences in any of the non-IE languages of the Caucasus.

For the second you have to explain why the Sumerians, Old Bablyonians and
Assyians make NO mention of any possible pre-Anatolian peoples, while they
*do* give indications of the existence of proto-Iranian peoples in Iran
(look at the Mitanni words for charioteering).

>And why did Greek have to move through the Balkans?

Ditto.

Plus:

C) the closest relative of Greek seems to be Old Macedonian
D) there were peripheral populations of Greeks to the northeast of Greece
proper, whence came the Dorians after the collapse of the Mykenean
civilization.
[Note, I do *not* say the Dorians *caused* said collapse, but they *did*
come from the area of modern day Albania and/or the former Yugoslavia].

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May the peace of God be with you.         sarima at ix.netcom.com