Perfective-Imperfective (3)

[Larry Trask]

On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Patrick C. Ryan wrote:

> Now, those of you who are actually IEists on this list were probably
> surprised to learn from Larry that "my, thy", etc. are *not*
> possessive pronouns. No doubt, it would surprise Beekes (1995, not
> exactly the Ice Age), who discusses IE "possessives" on pp. 210-211
> of his _Comparative Indo-European Linguistics_. But read what Larry
> intones ex cathedra:

>  "The tradition is wrong and must be corrected."

> I doubt very sincerely whether Beekes would object to considering
> "possessives" a member of a larger class of words called
> "determiners", but I feel certain he would, and I certainly do
> strenuously object to Larry attempting to force the interpretations
> and terminology of the school to which he and Comrie happen to
> adhere on those who prefer an alternative and equally legitimate
> approach, school, and terminology. Must we all recite the Comriean
> Creed to discuss linguistics? I thought that kind of blind dogma and
> unthinking profession went out with Marx and the other barbarians.

> Moreover, I find it deliciously laughable to contemplate that Larry
> or Comrie or any of their ilk would "correct" Beekes, an eminent
> linguist who employs terms so that no one needs Larry's dictionary
> to understand them; and, who incidentally knows more about
> comparative linguistics than most of those who would foolishly dare
> to "correct" him.

OK; some facts.  First, Beekes does not use the term `possessive
pronoun' at all in the passage cited by Ryan: he uses only the term
`possessive', which no one can object to.  Hence Ryan's rather snide
comments are pointless.

Second, Beekes is talking about PIE, while I was talking about English.
Whatever may be the case in PIE, or in any other language, the facts of
English are clear: words like `my' and `your' are not pronouns, but
determiners.  Possessive determiners, of course, but determiners.
This is easy to see, using a frame for noun phrases:

	___ was nice. (singular); ___ were nice. (plural)

Real pronouns can go into these blanks to make good sentences: She was
nice; It was nice; They were nice; Something was nice; Nothing was nice;
That was nice; and so on.  This is also true for the *real* possessive
pronouns in English: Mine was nice; Ours was nice.

But it doesn't work with the determiners: *My was nice; *Your was nice;
*Our was nice.

End of story.

Larry Trask
COGS
University of Sussex
Brighton BN1 9QH
UK

larryt at cogs.susx.ac.uk