Pre-Basque phonology (fwd)

[Larry Trask]

On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Eduard Selleslagh wrote:

[on Basque <ke> `smoke' and Greek <kapno's> `smoke']

> It always looked to me as if the specialists were at a loss to come
> up with a good IE etymology of <kapnós> (and the verb <kapnizo>, 'to
> smoke'). The relatively well-known etymologies you cite are rather
> difficult to defend in a straightforward way: among themselves, the
> Lithuanian, Latin and Gothic words are consistent with a common
> ascendance (root: kuep-, with long e) (even though Lat. vapor ought
> to be 'quapor'?), but <kapnós> is hard to fit into the series: why
> isn't the kv/hw/v (actually /w/) /p/ in Greek, as it should? Where
> does the -n- of -pn- fit in (from a derivative affix?)?

I am happy to leave this discussion to the specialists.  But I can see
no earthly way of deriving the Basque word from any of these IE sources.

[ES]

>>> I am not sure whether KAPNO'S is considered entirely IE, but if it
>>> is, the Basque word isn't original Basque.

[LT]

>> This doesn't follow.  Whatever the source of the Greek word, I can see
>> no case for deriving the Basque word from the Greek, or from any other
>> IE source.  Basque has never been in contact with Greek, which in any
>> event has no form that could serve as a source for <ke>, and no suitable
>> cognate is attested in any IE language known to have been in contact
>> with Basque.

> Supposing KE is derived from KAPNÓS, that is.

How could it be?  The Basque word looks nothing like the Greek word.
The central problem here is that initial /k/ in Basque, which simply
should not exist, *regardless* of the origin of the word.

It's rather as though we were to find a seemingly ancient English word
beginning with <zh> -- the consonant of `measure'.  Such a word should
not exist.

> I wouldn't be so sure Basque has never been in contact with Greek:
> at a certain moment, Basque (or a Pyrenean ancestor or relative )
> may have been spoken sufficiently far down the SE Pyrenees, where it
> could have connected with Greek settlements or their sphere of
> cultural influence (e.g. Ampurias). The Iberians were heavily
> influenced by the Greek, anyway.

But there is no *evidence* for any kind of Basque-Greek connection.
We can invent hypothetical links to our heart's content, but the only
thing that counts is hard evidence, and we don't have any here.

Anyway, I repeat: if Greek <kapno's> had somehow been borrowed into
early Basque, it could not possibly have entered Basque in the form
*<ke>.  The single segment shared by the two words is the one that could
not have existed in early Basque: that initial /k/.

> On the other hand, the first syllable of Gr. KAPNÓS may be of a
> common non-IE origin.

Perhaps, but why is this relevant to Basque?

>>> 2. If it is of IE origin, maybe via ancient Greek, the aspiration
>>> would be secondary, I think.

[LT]

>> The Basque aspiration appears to be generally of suprasegmental origin
>> anyway, and not of segmental origin.

> As you said, 'generally'.

Yes, but I see no reason to suppose that northern <khe> is an exception.

Larry Trask
COGS
University of Sussex
Brighton BN1 9QH
UK

larryt at cogs.susx.ac.uk