the Wheel and Dating PIE

[Stanley Friesen]

At 12:53 AM 2/4/00 -0500, X99Lynx at aol.com wrote:
>I simply MUST point out what is happening here.
>Much of your 'late Neolithic technology' - aside from the wheel - no longer
>supports the unity dates they once did and they do not necessarily refute the
>neolithic hypothesis regarding PIE.

>in the Ukraine, metal smelting appears about 4500BC - hammered  metal appears
>well before that.  The domesticated horse is now at about 4000BC and horse
>bones are in the food pits a thousand years before that.

Umm, circa 4000 BC is my current best guess for the time of unity.  (I
currently suspect the Sredny Stog culture of being the basic PIE culture).

The horse as food doesn't fit with its place in PIE.

>  Alot of this
>'late' neolithic technology is now arriving in the Ukraine with neolithicism
>or just afterwards.

>The list of objects that will establish PIE unity in say 3300BC in the
>Ukraine is now fast dwindling.

3300 BC is rather late for the unity, IMHO.

>  Heck, even red ochre graves were identified
>in the Bug-Dniestr sites dating before 4500BC.

One doesn't expect the core PIE culture to be unrelated to adjacent
cultures!  And there is little in the use of ochre in burials to match with
linguistic evidence.

>Now the question becomes - if all of these other objects with any confidence
>can only hold a last date of say 4500BC - how can wheeled transport still be
>used to preserve PIE unity as much as 1500 years later?

Umm, *I* am not talking about 1500 years later!   Only about 500.

The Neolithic starts at circa 7000 BC over most of eastern Europe.  THAT is
2000 years earlier than the 4000 BC date for the combined presence of
horses for riding, metal, and wheels,.

 And it is also important to realize that steppe nomads have always
historically been dependent on adjacent agricultural societies to some
degree.  So even a steppe nomad culture must be deemed Neolithic, as it is
almost certainly post-agriculture.

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May the peace of God be with you.         sarima at ix.netcom.com