the Wheel and Dating PIE

[Eduard Selleslagh]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Trask" <larryt at cogs.susx.ac.uk>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 4:07 PM

> Ed Selleslagh writes:

>>  After reading Ante Aikio's contributions, I suspect Uralic might begin
>>  to shed 'some' light on this matter. On the Basque side we have the
>>  intriguing matter of a number of suffixes that also pop up in IE
>>  (e.g.-z-ko <> -(s)ko in Slavic, basically with the 'same' meaning and
>>  use).

> A suffix *<-ko> is commonly posited for PIE, and this developed an
> extended form *<-s-ko> in some branches, notably Germanic.  Basque
> has a very common suffix <-ko>, and a compound suffix <-z-ko> (phonetic
> [-sko]).

> Many years ago, the late Antonio Tovar published a series of articles
> arguing that the PIE and Basque suffixes were so similar in their behavior
> that they must derive from a common source, which he took to be some
> (rather murky) kind of ancient contact.

> I have criticized this idea rather severely in various places.  The
> problem is that the Basque suffix does not really behave very much like
> the PIE one.

> The PIE suffix was a word-forming suffix.  It derived chiefly adjectives
> but also nouns.  I have never seen any suggestion that it ever had
> a syntactic function.

> The Basque suffix, in great contrast, is primarily a syntactic suffix:
> it can be added to just about any adverbial constituent, regardless of
> internal structure, to produce a preposed adjectival modifier.  That
> 'preposed' is significant, since lexical adjectives in Basque are
> postposed.

> Basque <-ko> also has two other functions, marginal by comparison.
> It can derive a preposed adjectival from an N-bar satisfying certain
> partly obscure conditions.  And it can derive nouns from nouns.

> Now, the Basque suffix does not derive adjectives -- the chief function
> of the PIE *<-ko>.  It does derive nouns, but only marginally.  It is
> overwhelmingly a syntactic morpheme, while the PIE suffix is not.
> This doesn't look to me like a good case for proposing a common origin.

> Finally, Basque <-z-ko> is transparently only the instrumental suffix
> <-z> -- which is adverbial in function -- plus <-ko>.  It cannot possibly
> be identified with the *<-s-ko> found in IE.

> Larry Trask

[Ed]

Apparently, you took my "basically with the 'same' meaning and use" a far too
literally. IE languages are flecting, Basque is agglutinating and basically
suffixing, so the use and grammatical or syntactic functions of suffixes can
hardly be identical. However, the general meaning conveyed by suffixing a word
with -ko is very, very similar. Even the often rather subtle difference between
-ko and -zko, on the one hand, and -ko and -sko on the other is often similar.
Of course, supposing there is some common origin, both very different language
types would have incorporated these suffixes in different ways, compatible with
their idiosyncratic typology.

Ed.