PIE e/o Ablaut

[Stanley Friesen]

At 08:21 AM 3/13/00 +0000, Patrick C. Ryan wrote:
>[SF]

>> This is where I start to have a problem.  As far as I know, NO living
>> language has only one vowel, or at most only one or two such languages
>> exist.  The normal minimum is *three* vowels: /a/, /i/, /u/.

>[PR]

>I do not suppose that this was a stable situation. But, as I have written
>before, that does not, in my opinion, mean that it could not have occurred
>briefly.

Only if you can show even *one* language today with only one phonemic
vowel.  If NO modern language has only one vowel, then this must be taken
as a true, absolute  universal.  If it is an absolute universal, then, yes,
it *must* be excluded, even as a transitory phase.

>Look at Old Indian. There, any vowel other than [a] is clearly a combination
>of [a] + [y], [w], or [H] ) or [a] of we consider vrddhi.

Derivationally and historically, yes.  But synchronically within the
language, 'e' and 'o' are true phonemic vowels.  (Actually, so are 'i' and
'u', if I remember my Sanskrit correctly).

The fact that the vowel in 'leapt' (in English) is obviously *derived* from
the same vowel as in 'leap' does not make the distinction in vowel quality
any less phonemic in the current language.

>Well, call it pre-PIE if you like. I was only trying to avoid the "N" word.

It is a standard use of terminology.  An internally reconstructed stage
earlier than a basic proto-language is prefixed with "pre-".

>[SF]

>> Those that show 'o' in PIE proper, except where that is analogical or
>> grammatical.

>[PR]

>Of which I have yet to see convincing examples.

Umm, what sort of example would you expect?  The shift **a: > *o would have
been a regular phonetic change, and thus would have been essentially
universal.  By the very nature of the hypothesis no *direct* trace would be
left - ALL of the old a:s would have gone over into o's, resulting in an
alternation between *e and *o where there had formerly been one between **a
and **a:.  So, in a sense the e/o alternation *is* the example.

And that particular change is well attested in later languages.  It
happened between Old English and Modern English, for instance.  OE /sta:n-/
became Modern English 'stone', but the short vowel, as seen in my name,
remained low and unrounded.

[The name 'Stanley' derives from OE 'stanlig' or 'stanlice'].

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May the peace of God be with you.         sarima at ix.netcom.com