pragmatic bootstrapping

Tue Mar 22 18:23:07 UTC 2011

If you wish to communicate than you need to share enough of the context
If you "communicate" with yourself - there is an agreed upon context too,
even if it is in your head. What difference does it make?

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Tom Roeper <roeper at linguist.umass.edu>wrote:

> You can call it a different one---but a lot of what we imagine is entirely
> in our heads, so how does it qualify as a context?
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Yonata Levy <msyonata at huji.ac.il> wrote:
>
>> Is it liberation from context or the adoption of a different one?
>> Seems to me imagination is about possible worlds, i.e. other contexts
>> Yonata
>>
>>   On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Tom Roeper <roeper at linguist.umass.edu>wrote:
>>
>>> It is pretty simple---if language is an autonomous system--we can form
>>> non-sense sentences---and
>>> possibly worlds.  All of creativity involves imagining and distorting how
>>> things are--going against
>>> context and reality----sometimes in a possible world, or may be an
>>> impossible one.
>>>     this is what Jabberwocky showed about a century ago.  It is the
>>> moment of liberation from context
>>> that we have to capture.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:29 PM, suse <sgrass at gmx.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  i wouldn't eve have thought that "anti-pragmatic ability is the sign of
>>>> true acquisition"...
>>>>
>>>> Does that mean that one fully acquired language only when one is able to
>>>> use it inappropriately?
>>>> If this is what is meant, then i wonder how humankind was able to
>>>> maintain the ability to communicate linguistically. Or does the above
>>>> statement mean that true acquisition relates to the ability to understand
>>>> sentences which make no or little sense in our world (but may be true in
>>>> other worlds in which mice get eaten by cheese rather than the other way
>>>> round and in which Chomsky is an advocate of pragmatic bootstrapping?)
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> Suse
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 22-03-11 17:03, schrieb Tom Roeper:
>>>>
>>>> Sorry---you know I was typing fast, and it is 1976---but I guess if we
>>>> went back to Panini, one
>>>> could probably find the idea earlier.
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Matthew Saxton <M.Saxton at ioe.ac.uk>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  > ...... *embedded in Chomsky's remark in 1076 ......*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I realise Chomsky has been around for some time, but who’d’ve though
>>>>> it? He precedes the invention of the printing press......
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthew Saxton.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *********************************************************************************************************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Saxton Academic Homepage<http://www.ioe.ac.uk/staff/PHDT/PHDT_71.html>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:
>>>>> info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Roeper
>>>>> *Sent:* 22 March 2011 12:37
>>>>> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: pragmatic bootstrapping
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anat---
>>>>>     in the paper I wrote in 1981 for the Wanner Gleitman volume, I
>>>>> argued that children needed pragmatic
>>>>> mapping onto syntax to justify transformations.  That means a
>>>>> simultaneous syntactic and pragmatic
>>>>> information.  It is in my book as well---and actually embedded in
>>>>> Chomsky's remark in 1076 Reflections
>>>>> on Language, that acqusition must be consistent with "trigtering
>>>>> experience" I said to him that must include
>>>>> pragmatics and he agreed.
>>>>>    It is obvious that it is hard to understand:
>>>>>        the cat was chased by the dog.
>>>>> but the chld has a big semantic.pragmatic  advantage when they hear:
>>>>>
>>>>> the milk was drunk by the boy
>>>>>
>>>>> because they know that milk cannot drink boy.  If there is syntax is
>>>>> ready to project a transformation,
>>>>> then they use that information and visual support to say "milk has to
>>>>> get into the object position somehow,
>>>>> do I have a mental operation to do it".
>>>>>       Once acquired, it will be autonomous and apply without
>>>>> pragmatics, so if I tell a 3yr old:
>>>>>
>>>>>       the cheese ate the mouse
>>>>>
>>>>> they laugh, because they know, anti-pragmatically, that it is true.  An
>>>>> anti-pragmatic ability is the
>>>>> sign of true acquisition.
>>>>>
>>>>> best, Tom  Roeper
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 6:17 PM, parisa Daftarifard <
>>>>> pdaftaryfard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Anat,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Very interesting topic.....I am not sure but lack of language
>>>>> development or language development delay can occur because of problems in
>>>>> pragmatic bootstrapping in some children. Kids with low possibility of being
>>>>> involved in interaction-- when mothers or fathers are busy or when kids live
>>>>> in a poor-interaction environment-- showed to have language delay. This is
>>>>> especially interesting when we consider that TVs are always on and they can
>>>>> get enough input in a unilateral way.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best.
>>>>>
>>>>> Parisa Daftarifard
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Anat Ninio <
>>>>> msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear List,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry to have sent this to the whole list by mistake, but actually I'd
>>>>> love to hear from anybody who knows of studies that can be said to test the
>>>>> hypothesis that children learn syntax by "pragmatic bootstrapping".
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Anat Ninio
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17-03-11 06:01, Anat Ninio wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Nameera,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a lot!  Absolutely coincidentally this very minute I'm reading
>>>>> your 2008 (or is it 2009?) encyclopedia entry
>>>>>
>>>>> Akhtar, N., & Herold, K. (2008). Pragmatic development. In M. M. Haith
>>>>> & J. B. Benson (Eds.), *Encyclopedia of infant and early childhood
>>>>> development,* Vol. *2* (pp. 572-581). San Diego, CA: Academic Press.
>>>>>
>>>>> which I want to cite for a research proposal for an European grant.
>>>>> First, is it 2008 or 2009? Second, you say
>>>>>
>>>>> "We know of no empirical research, however, that has directly addressed
>>>>> the question of whether children learn syntactic constructions in the same
>>>>> way as they learn words; that is,  through "pragmatic bootstrapping" or
>>>>> attention to speakers' intentions." (p.319)
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you still say so? Or is there some new study that you know of
>>>>> that I should mention? Any newer publication of yours on this point?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a lot and see you in SRCD for sure,
>>>>>
>>>>> Anat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17-03-11 05:14, nameera akhtar wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> congratulations, anat!
>>>>>
>>>>> hope to see you at srcd,
>>>>>
>>>>> nameera
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Anat Ninio <
>>>>> msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm very happy to be able to announce the publication of my new book by
>>>>> Oxford University Press.  It is entitled   "Syntactic development, its
>>>>> input and output" and a description of it, as well as a link to the
>>>>> Introduction, can be found on the publisher's on-line catalogue at
>>>>> http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199565962.do
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope you'll like it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Anat Ninio
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Parisa Daftarifard
>>>>>
>>>>> Phd Student of TEFL
>>>>>
>>>>> Islamic Azad University of Science and Research
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tom Roeper
>>>>> Dept of Lingiustics
>>>>> UMass South College
>>>>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
>>>>> 413 256 0390
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tom Roeper
>>>> Dept of Lingiustics
>>>> UMass South College
>>>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
>>>> 413 256 0390
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tom Roeper
>>> Dept of Lingiustics
>>> UMass South College
>>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
>>> 413 256 0390
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  *Prof. Yonata Levy*
>> *Psychology Department *
>> *and Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical School*
>> *Mount Scopus*
>> *Jerusalem 91905, ISRAEL*
>> **
>> *tel:972-2-5883408 (o)*
>> *     972-547905997 (c)*
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Tom Roeper
> Dept of Lingiustics
> UMass South College
> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
> 413 256 0390
>
> --
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>

-- 
 *Prof. Yonata Levy*
*Psychology Department *
*and Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical School*
*Mount Scopus*
*Jerusalem 91905, ISRAEL*
**
*tel:972-2-5883408 (o)*
*     972-547905997 (c)*

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