Idiom comprehension in L2 learners

Phillip Hamrick philliphamrick at gmail.com
Mon Jun 9 14:00:23 UTC 2014


Thanks, Marylin!

On Friday, June 6, 2014 2:02:59 PM UTC-4, nip... at uoregon.edu wrote:
>
>  It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) 
> often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is 
> because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are 
> culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* 
> avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the 
> English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that 
> the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in 
> the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down in 
> the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning 
> English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily 
> translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb 
> is Russian, but we all understand it instantly:
>
> “The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I’ll 
> walk very carefully.” That’s just the nature of different types of 
> figurative expressions (and human beings).
>
> Marilyn Nippold
>
> University of Oregon
>
> USA
>
>  *From:* info-c... at googlegroups.com <javascript:> [
> mailto:in... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>]* On Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter
> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM
> *To:* info-c... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>
> *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language
>
> One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) 
> L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the 
> non-native language.  This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect 
> phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native 
> speakers.  It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to 
> mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing.
>
> Peter Gordon
>
> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* <javascript:>> 
> wrote:
>
> HI all.    Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study 
> (also discussed in  the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for 
> idioms.   Best regards,  Keith N
>                         
>
>    *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of 
>       idiomatic language expressions                          in a group 
>       intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.*
>       
>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* <javascript:>>
> Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language
> To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* <javascript:>, Keith Nelson <
> *keithnelsonart at gmail.com* <javascript:>>
>  
> Hi all.   I m attaching a JSLHR  paper just out from our lab that reviews 
> lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension.   Cheers,  
> Keith 
>
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* 
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
> Hi folks--
>
> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard:
>
>      "I know a shortcut"
>
>      "well, I know a shorter cut"
>
> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke".
>
> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears
>
> in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it
>
> relates to complex sentences.
>
>   Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent
>
> to children's comprehension of them.  A child with
>
> a stomache who said"
>
>        "there's a fireengine in my stomach"
>
> or a child with a stuffed nose who said:
>
>        "there's paint in my nose".
>
> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically
>
> motivated.
>
> Tom Roeper
>
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* 
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>    Dear Hüseyin,
>       
>       (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here 
>       thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well)
>       
>       ·         (Concerning your question about the location of data 
>       collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends 
>       totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student 
>       (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; 
>       watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may 
>       be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in 
>       Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your  sentences 
>       depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic 
>       and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of 
>       prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. 
>       
>       ·         One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, 
>       you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of 
>       compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic 
>       unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the 
>       whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it 
>       comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality 
>       Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of 
>       pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions.
>       
>       ·         Another thing to concentrate on may be the 
>       prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic 
>       expressions) itself rather than the expressions’ containing prototypical 
>       elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some 
>       idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or 
>       regarding other qualities.
>       
>       ·         Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be 
>       too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal 
>       observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions 
>       or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. 
>       
>       I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your 
>       demanding study. Good luck in all ways.
>       
>        
> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first 
> question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts).
>
> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the 
> point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language 
> development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) 
> experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature 
> in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by 
> Gibbs and Colston in 
> *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* 
> <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747>). So my 
> questions are as follows:
>
> ·       What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child 
> language?
>
> ·       Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, 
> or more generally figurative language?
>
> ·       Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design?
>
> ·       What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in 
> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism 
> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another 
> perspective.)
>
> ·       A third research field having just popped into my mind is child 
> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Huseyin
>
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>  --
> Tom Roeper
> Dept of Lingiustics
> UMass South College
> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
> *413 256 0390* 
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>  -- 
>
> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor
>
> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180
>
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>
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>
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>
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