[language] Re: 13.2735, Disc: 2nd to Last Posting - Darwinism & Evolution

[H.M. Hubey]

<><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><>




Nemonemini at aol.com wrote:

>
>
>

I  feel that I should make an attempt to respond to three emails of  Mr.
Landon. But I will have
to be brief because this is an extremely complex topic.  However, for
those interested in
related topics I will point out this reference:

Hubey, H.M. "Evolution of Intelligence: Direct modeling....",
Kybernetes, Vol 31, No. 3/4, 2002.


>Date:  Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:09:07 EDT
>From:  Nemonemini at aol.com
>Subject:  Re: 13.2704, Disc: Darwinism & Evolution of Lang
>
>
>
>>Actually this is simply a matter of definition. It goes like this:
>>
>>random + deterministic = random
>>random*deterministic = random
>>
>>The former is "additive noise" and the latter "multiplicative noise",
>>and both are random. "Random" is not equal to "uniforrmly random",
>>thus one can find broadbrush patterns in random phenomena.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I recommend a good biography of Isaac Newton, when you start trying to
>figure out both reality and the methodology with respect to reality at
>the same time. You will discover that science as we know is monkey see
>monkey do plus ingenious math tricks.
>

I think I know a lot more about science than you imagine and I see no
reason to pursue this line. You are
welcome to join the "Language" list and pursue your arguments there. To
join, send email to this address:
majordomo at csam-lists.montclair.edu, and in the body of the message put
"subscribe language" (without the
quotes).

What is randomness and what is deterministic is very clearly defined and
I wrote it above. No need
for confusion.


>-------------------------------- Message 2 -------------------------------
>
>Date:  Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:43:49 EDT
>From:  Nemonemini at aol.com
>Subject:  Re: 13.2721, Disc: Darwinism & Evolution of Lang
>
>
>RE Linguist 13.2721
>
>
>
>>I realize I have to expand what I wrote.
>>
>>It is best explained via equations. Let f(t) be some function of time,
>>and r(t) be a random function of time.  Then if y(t)= r(t)*f(t) and
>>x(t)=r(t)+f(t), both x(t), and y(t) are random processes. This is due
>>simply to definition of randomness.  To apply directly to evolution,
>>let the "evolution" of something very simple be given by the equation
>>
>>          dz(t)/dt + a(t)*z(t) = f(t)
>>
>>
>>
>
>I will study this but I should say that....
>

>The flaw, to me, can be seen in the old edition of Hartl
>on pop gen, where the 'force' is brought in relation to natural
>selection. The problem is that natural selection is not a force, and
>evolution is not physics, and the equations don't really explain
>evolution.  What is this 'force', i.e. what's our game in terms of
>foundational concepts?  We can't say until we have the facts.
>

I explained all this. And soon I will be working on "population
genetics" models with a colleague whose
specialty is dynamics (in fact, population dynamics) and we will be
working on language evolution.
To add more, the  partial differential equations for the pdf (prob
density function) of random processes
are the so-called diffusion models, and I have already done work in this
field and understand it
reasonably well. You can also read about them in both of these books:

Hubey, H.M. 1999, Mathematical Foundations of Linguistics, Lincom Europa
Hubey, H.M. 1994 Mathematical and Computational Linguistics, Mir Domu
Tvoemu, Moscow
(this later published by Lincom Europa in 1999).

Longer and more detailed versions of these books (with examples and
exercises suitable for
teaching) will be eventually published.

>Consider finally a puzzle. The pieces are scrambled, and seem
>random. Then we see the relation of certain pieces to each other, and
>solve a corner of the puzzle. Then we see the pieces cohere, and are
>not random.  Thus my usage is quite ordinary, and takes common sense
>derivations. The term random is hardly a numerical issue at all.
>
It can't be anything else. It is exactly because it is so difficult to
explain that so much precision and
detail are needed. There are tons of mathematical materials on
probability theory, stochastic processes,
plausible reasoning (See Jaynes' book), etc. It is a very rich field and
also very powerful. Today most of
datamining, model-building, search for patterns, knowledge discovery are
all tied together within the
view point of probability theory, namely Bayesian reasoning. See the
book by Hastie, Tibshirani, and
Feldman for the last 30 years of research in this field.


>------------------------
>
>Date:  Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:02:18 EDT
>From:  Nemonemini at aol.com
>Subject:  Re: 13.2721, Disc: Darwinism & Evolution of Lang
>
>Re: Linguist 13.2721
>
>
>
>>It is best explained via equations. Let f(t) be some function of time,
>>and r(t) be a random function of time.  Then if y(t)= r(t)*f(t) and
>>x(t)=r(t)+f(t), both x(t), and y(t) are random processes. This is due
>>simply to definition of randomness.  To apply directly to evolution,
>>let the "evolution" of something very simple be given by the equation
>>
>>          dz(t)/dt + a(t)*z(t) = f(t)
>>
>>
>>
>
>??? And? To rescue the idea of randomness here in this fashion seems
>beside the point.
>

Randomness needs no rescue. Perhaps those who do not understand it might
wish to be rescued.

>
>


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