[Lexicog] sit vs. sit

[Guy Gambill]

Hello,

    I believe the question comes down to the problem of transitive vs.
intransitive verbs and verbal phrases: In Cheyenne (by my understanding)
as in other Algic languages, the animacy or inanimacy of the direct object
determines the verbal form used-which is irrelevant in English, which
natural sustantive gender. A transitive verb implies a verb or verbal
phrase which carries an action from a subject to an object-requires a
direct object. An intransitive verb or verbal phrase does not, or cannot,
take a direct object.
    In the case of both "set" and "sit" transitive and intransitive forms
can be used-they are not "exclusive" in this sense. Sit is more likely
to be intransitive, set transitive.
   For example, usages of 'sit' (intransitive): "to perch" (as with birds),
to pose for a photograph, a legislative body that "sits", to remain unused (as
in, "the suits sat unworn in the closet for many years"), "that jacket sits
well on you...etcetera.
  For transitive usages; to cause to seat (s.o.), to sit on eggs...
  In the case of 'set'-transitive usage is more frequent, as in; to set a
book on a table, to put in a specified state, in the sense of to adjust
(to set sail, for example), to arrange for use (set the table)...etcetera...
  For intransitive usages; "the sun sets on the horizon", in the sense
of to decline, to get hard or harden, a broken bone that "sets".
   Both verbs come from the common proto-IE form *-sed...and
by usage are intimately related, not only in English, but in other
Germanic languages as well.
   In the Algic languages (by my understanding) the animacy or
inanimacy of the noun is not necessarily always intertwined with
whether or not it is 'alive', per se. Correct? Yet, the verbal form
is impacted by the sustantive class-unlike English.
   In English animacy and inanimacy of the direct object is not
of such import. Someone can "sit" on ANY direct object...it
doesn't matter...
   I hope this helps somewhat.

Guy Gambill






'Lou Hohulin' <lou_hohulin at sil.org> wrote:
In English, I think we differentiate between 'sit' and 'set'. 'Set' generally means to cause something (inanimate object) to 'sit'. Does that fit your data?

Lou

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:47:33 -0700
"Wayne Leman" <wayne_leman at sil.org> wrote:
> I'm having a mental block right now as I am working on the Cheyenne lexicon.
> As I file entries I often include a semantic domain keyword. This keyword
> allows me to extract all lexical entries for a specific semantic domain,
> such as all words having to do with cutting, or horses, or weather.
>
> I already have a semantic domain keyword of 'sit.' It is used for all verbs
> which have stem morphology marked that the subject is an animate being that
> is sitting (or, more generally, being at a location, typically in some form
> of sitting). The English word 'sit' seems natural enough for me to be the
> semantic domain keyword for these verb stems.
>
> Now, in Cheyenne, as in its sister languages of the Algonquian language
> family, there are also verbs corresponding to the preceding class, but which
> have an inanimate entity being at a location. I've been checking my
> dictionaries and I *think* the English word 'sit' is also used for semantic
> states of inananimate entities "sitting." For me, the English word "sit"
> somehow does not sound as natural for this class of verbs which take
> inanimate subjects (and stem morphology which registers the fact that there
> is an inanimate subject).
>
> Regardless of my English intuitions on naturalness about 'sit' used with
> inanimate subjects, I need some other semantic domain keyword so I can
> differentiate the two verb classes and extract verbs of one or the other,
> when desired. I can, of course, use some dummy keyword such as "xyz", but I
> find it easier to remember my semantic domain keywords if they bear some
> resemblance to "reality."
>
> For the time being I am using an abbreviation "sit inan" for the second
> class of verbs, but I'm wondering if any of you who are not having a mental
> block while reading this message (or at least not when you started reading
> it!) might have a suggestion for another English word which sounds natural
> when used to describe inanimate objects which "are at", e.g.
>
> "The box is on the table." (Cheyenne uses a single verb for "is on".)
> "The house is in a nice location." (Cheyenne uses a single short verb for
> "be in a nice location.")
> "It's jello (a verb stem composed of two parts, literally, 'quiver-be.at')
> etc.
>
> If you need to sit (ahem!) on this for awhile, feel free, but any
> suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne
> -----
> Wayne Leman
> Cheyenne website: http://www.geocities.com/cheyenne_language
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>


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