[Lexicog] Dictionary of a language with classifiers

[Ron Moe]

The problem with Kim's solution (below) is that using \se makes it appear
that iyá 'a' and iyá kap are phrasal lexemes. They are not, if I understand
you correctly. Also using \se causes each sense to begin a new line:

iyá n. stone.
  iyá 'a' n. stone.
  iyá kap n. gravel.

This is not at all what you want. At least it does not accurately
communicate the nature of iyá 'a' and iyá kap. Currently you are making each
sense of iyá into a separate entry:

iyá 'a' n. stone.
iyá kap n. gravel.

This format also makes it look like these are phrasal lexemes. There are two
possible formats that would convey the information correctly:

iyá n. 1. iyá 'a' stone. 2. iyá kap gravel.

Or:

iyá n. 1. stone. iyá 'a'. 2. gravel. iyá kap.

This second format is preferred because, by tradition, examples of usage and
collocation are placed after the definition. However some dictionary
traditions place parts of the paradigm toward the beginning of the entry:

have v. had, having, has Used as an auxiliary verb before...

We do the same sort of thing in Bantu dictionaries to give the plural of
nouns:

muntu n. bantu A person, someone...

Unfortunately MDF does not have a vernacular field that occurs between the
initial fields (\lx \lc \se \ps \sn) and the definition fields (\dv \de
\dn). Some of us have complained about this. There are some solutions, but
they all involve modifying the MDF Consistent Changes tables or modifying
the Word document once MDF has processed the file. Neither solution is easy.
So I would recommend that you put the classifier in a lexical function field
and label it as a classifier:

\lx iyá
\ps n
\sn 1
\de stone
\lf Classifier
\lv iyá 'a'
\sn 2
\de gravel
\lf Classifier
\lv iyá kap

You will get the following output (or something very similar):

iyá n. 1. stone. Classifier: iyá 'a' 2. gravel. Classifier: iyá kap.

Ron Moe

-----Original Message-----
From: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kim Blewett
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:27 AM
To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Lexicog] Dictionary of a language with classifiers


Dear Nilson,

One possible solution is to create a separate entry for each of your
combined forms (separate \lx fields. Since the classifiers follow the nouns,
the related forms would be appear in the dictionary as separate entry words,
but grouped alphabetically so people would see the relationships. It sounds
as if you'd rather not do this, but keep the combined forms together.

Another solution is to use the Subentry (\se) field for the noun+classifier
forms. Then the dictionary entry would be the base noun, and each subentry
would appear in bold type as a separate paragraph underneath the main entry.
Using your data for 'stone' you would do something like this:

\lx iyá
\lc (is there a "citation form" which speakers use? Or can they utter the
bare noun in isolation? If so you can omit this field for these cases)
\ps ---
\de stone (general term)
...
\se iyá 'a'
\ps ---
\de stone
\re stone
...
\se iyá kap
\ps --
\de gravel
\re gravel
...

Two things to be aware of:

(1) You need the Reversal (\re) field for each subentry if you plan to
produce a "Reverse Finder List" using the MDF exporter that's built into
Toolbox, and you want your \se forms to appear in that list. If there is no
\re field, MDF looks for a Gloss (\ge) field to use. If you are not using
\ge fields (mostly needed for the text interlinearizer built into Toolbox,
then you may need to add a \re field to every lexeme--I can't remember
exactly how MDF works here.

You can read more about MDF here:
http://www.sil.org/computing/shoebox/MDF.html. The PDF-format book, Making
Dictionaries, plus its updates since publication, are available from this
page.

(2) You may have read this already in the Toolbox Help file, but I'll
mention it here just in case: Fields in Toolbox are grouped into "bundles"
by the hierarchy that's built into the database type files. You can view
this hierarchy through the View menu--Marker Hierarchy.

Because of this structure, all supporting fields such as \ps, \ge, examples,
notes, etc., must be correctly placed under the form they support. The ...
Lines in my example above show where these supporting fields belong, except
that Part of Speech (\ps) comes above \de and \ge in the hierarchy.

I hope this helps.
Kim Blewett (working in Papua New Guinea on a language with classifiers
also)


-----Original Message-----
From: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nilson Gabas Junior
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:01 AM
To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Lexicog] Dictionary of a language with classifiers

Hi, everyone!
I am a Brazilian linguist who work with Brazilian Indigenous languages.
I am currently in the process of writing a Karo-Portuguese dictionary,
using Toolbox, but am faced with the following problem.
Karo is a language which makes use of a classifier system. Classifiers
occur (most of the times) optionally, after a noun, and is (usually)
related to its shape.
So, for my dictionary entry (\lx) I am just putting the bare noun, and
for the citation form (\lc) I am putting the noun plus the classifier.
Now, the problem I am facing is that some nouns have different
referents if the classifier which occurs after them change.
For instance, the noun /iyá/ 'stone' may occur with a couple of
classifiers, and, in each occurrence, /iyá + CL/ will mean something
different. Eg. /iyá 'a'/, where 'a' is the classifier for round
objects means 'stone', whereas /iyá kap/, where 'kap' is the
classifier for things which occur in bunches, means 'gravel'.
So, in these cases, for the words which have different meanings
depending on the classifier they occur with, I suppose I CANNOT put in
the lexical entry just the bare noun root, but the root with the
classifier, but I run the risk of being inconsistent in my dictionary
writing.
How can I solve this problem? Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Gabas Jr.






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