[Lexicog] rules when it comes to latin word roots

[David Tuggy]

I assumed (and still think true) that these are both words derived from
the same stem and suffix. (In Spanish "familiar" means "pertaining
to/fit for the family": thus a resort may have a sign posted saying
"este lugar es familiar", meaning "this is a family-friendly place".)
Surely the meaning "to which one is accustomed" is not very far
semantically from "being part of/closely associated with one's family":
a "familiar friend" would normally be familiar in both senses of the term.

I don't see these as counter-examples, unless the dissimilation is
presented as totally exceptionless. I don't think it was that, at least
during much of its history. Spanish still uses the suffix productively
(often with the extended meaning "place where there is lots of N"), and
the dissimilation pattern is noteworthy. A zacatal 'grassy patch'
(zacate=grass) would not be called a *zacatar, nor would a frijolar
'bean patch' be called a 'frijolal'. Spanish definitely extends the
preference for -ar to words with -l- further back in the stem (e.g.
platanar 'banana grove', palmar 'palm grove', palomar 'dovecote'). But
there are exceptions both ways: some with -l- which nonetheless take -al
(e.g. lineal, or some do say platanal), and some without it which take
-ar (e.g. conejar 'rabbit warren'). "Familial" (English) seems to me to
be one of the former kind of exceptions; "familiar" to be following the
dissimilation pattern. "Linear" and "lineal" are another such pair in
English; "local" and "lugar" 'place (with different ranges of
sub-meanings)' are one for Spanish.

It's a matter of which of two forms of a historically variant word is
borrowed at which stage with which meaning. And a pattern that in a
source language is robust, with relatively few exceptions, will
typically be an easily overridden shadow of its former self in a
borrowing language.

So I think I'm agreeing with you quite entirely.

--David Tuggy



John Roberts wrote:

> <snip>
>
> David Tuggy wrote:
>
> > **"familiar" and "familial" make a nice pair: both well established and
> > both based on or at least related to "family", but with quite different
> > meanings.**
> >
>
> David,
> I am not clear if you are offering "familiar" and "familial" as
> counter-examples of the Latin borrowed "-al ~ -ar" dissimilation process.
> "familiar" is an old word and can be traced back to the Old French
> "familier". "familial" is a comparatively new English word - coined in
> the
> early 20th cent. It is a clear derivation from "family" + "-al" 'relating
> to'. Whereas "familiar" does not have this meaning. Should "family" +
> "-al"
> 'relating to' produce "familiar"? No, I don't think so. In fact, it can't
> because there is already the existing word "familiar". But even if
> this word
> did not exist "familial" would not be a counter-example. First, the stem
> "family" does not end with "l". You also have a similarly shaped word
> "pallial" 'of mollusc or brachiopod' where "-al" does not become "-ar".
> There are some words, such as "linear", "planar" and "plantar", which
> don't
> have stem final "l" but do have the "-ar" change. However, these words do
> have an "l" in the stem. So this might trigger the change. On the other
> hand, there are words such as "clausal", "plural" and "scleral" which
> have
> an "l" in the stem but do not undergo the "-ar" change.
>
> I think in the end you have to say this is a dissimilation rule by
> analogy
> adopted into English rather than an obligatory phonological rule of
> English
> word-formation. But anyone inventing new English words would still
> need to
> be aware of this.
>
> John Roberts
>
>
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