[Lexicog] Phrasefinder

[bolstar1]

Grant, Fred, et. al.: I tried the first phrase that came into my mind 
in testing the site [phrases.org.uk]. I tried "In for a penny." I 
expected to be met with a pound of aphorism, but I got a 
googletudinous reply. I tried the yalequotes.com site, and I got 
many, many quotes including "penny." This exemplifies the problem 
that you alluded to -- the complex nature of phrases, and 
phraseology, in general. It is also a reflection of the state of the 
e-gravitating state of the lexicographical art. I would have 
preferred a drilling tool to zero in on true "idioms" or "aphorisms" 
or truly "quotable quotes."   

Scott Nelson


--- In lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com, "Shapiro, Fred" 
<fred.shapiro at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> Grant has studied phrases.org.uk more than I have, so I accept his 
statement that the quality is very variable.  But there is definitely 
good original research there, and it is worth consulting along with 
other research tools.  For example, I just looked up "a picture is 
worth a thousand words."  I did a lot of research on this for The 
Yale Book of Quotations and pushed it back from the usually accepted 
coinage by Frederick Barnard in the 1920s to a 1914 appearance in the 
New York Times.  But Phrasefinder, apparently searching 
Newspaperarchive or Google News Archive, gives a 1911 citation from a 
Syracuse newspaper.  This is a major phrase discovery.  I assume 
there are other entries at this level, and in perusing the site I 
found very good research, of a sort that only a small number of 
people in the world would even think to do, in many entries.
> 
> Fred Shapiro
> Editor
> Yale Book of Quotations (Yale University Press)
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com 
[lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Grant Barrett 
[gbarrett at ...]
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 6:10 AM
> To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Lexicog]  Phrasefinder
> 
> The quality of the scholarship at Phrases.org.uk is so variable that
> confirming an answer given there is an exercise in just going ahead
> and doing the research yourself.
> 
> The site is interesting in that it occasionally touches upon
> expressions not well-covered elsewhere but by and large, outside the
> scant 1200 entries that are provided by the site, the content is
> almost exclusively made up of a forum where the clueless answer
> questions asked by the clueless.
> 
> One is far more likely to find a satisfactory answer by searching
> Google Books or Amazon's full-text search. Or better, visiting a
> library.
> 
> Grant Barrett
> gbarrett at ...
> 113 Park Place, Apt. 3
> Brooklyn, NY 11217
> (646) 286-2260
> 
> >
> > Every once in a while we get an inquiry on this list about the
> > meaning of
> > some phrase or idiom, which engenders a particularistic reply (or
> > multiple
> > replies). I have been impressed with the judicious and 
historically
> > interesting work of Gary Martin, whose Phrasefinder online source 
is
> > very
> > impressive. Unless others have other opinions about this source, 
I'd
> > like
> > to suggest that we simply routinely refer basic inquiries to this
> > site:
> >
> >     http://www.phrases.org.uk/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>



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