guarani

[Stan-Sandy Anonby]

From: Stan & Sandy Anonby
Date: 04/18/04 21:33:08
To: Aurolyn Luykx
Subject: Re: Fw: Guarani


Hi Aurolyn,

Yes, "time capsule" is probably too strong of a term - but Paraguay is
landlocked and poor, and in strictly linguistic terms, it's somewhat true,
anyway.

My colleague Bob Dooley would know more about the speech of the monolingual
Guaranis vs the bilingual Paraguayo Guaranis.

Yes, I suppose there are some identical circumstances that haven't produced
the situation of Guarani in Paraguay, and that's interesting; but there also
are similar circumstances that have produced situations like that of
Paraguayan
Guarani.  Note:

In northern Brazil, Tupinamba spread by the colonizers in a very similar way
to Guarani in the south.  Today, Tupinamba is only spoken in the Sao Gabriel
da Cachoeira area, in Brazil, Colombia, and Venezuela.  This Tupinamba
became creolized, and is now known as Nhengatu or Lingua Geral.  It was the
lingua franca throughout the rest of Northern Brazil, but now only survives
in an
isolated area where the sociolinguistic ecology is somewhat similar to that
which existed in Brazil 200 years ago.  The old "time capsule" (which I'm
sure is not 100% true).  In northern Brazil today, there remain a few Indian
groups like the Wayampi and Zo'e who remained isolated until recently, like
the monolingual Guaranis in Paraguay.

Thoughout a lot of hispanophone South America, the language of catechism
taught
by the priests was Quechua, not Spanish.  So Quechua, or some variety of it,
was spread by priests to areas that were never part of the Inca Empire.
Today, Quechua survives in Santiago del Estero province in Argentina.
Santiago is
one of the most isolated, "time capsule-like" areas of the country.
Elsewhere in northern Argentina, all that remains of Quechua are the place
names.  Everyone has
switched to Spanish.  In the far north, there is a native Indian group that
speaks Quechua, too, but sociolinguistically, they would be more like what
you're calling the monolingual Guarani Indian speakers.

Sorry I took so long in responding.  I was off traveling to some border
areas near Bolivia and Venezuela.  I'm off again on Monday.

Stan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aurolyn Luykx" <aurolynluykx at yahoo.com>
To: "Stan & Sandy Anonby" <stan-sandy_anonby at sil.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Guarani


> Hi Stan,
> I agree that Paraguay has a rather unique
> sociolinguistic history, and don't argue (much) with
> your capsule summary of how that came about, though I
> don't share your view of Paraguay as a "time capsule
> (Paraguay 2004 = Brasil 1704)". Not that I claim to
> know the country well, I just am generally skeptical
> of representations of particular regions as somehow
> "outside of the currents of history" (Orin Starn has
> written about this with regard to the Andean
> countries). In any case, my point was just that there
> you have a large population that does not identify as
> indigenous that nonetheless speaks an indigenous lg.
> as a mother tongue -- your version of how that came
> about makes sense, but it's also interesting that
> similar circumstances did NOT produce that result in
> so many other places.
> Do you know of any studies comparing/contrasting the
> Guarani speech of contemporary monolingual Guaranies
> in Paraguay with that of bilingual Paraguayos?
> Aurolyn
>
> > Hi Aurolyn,
> > >
> > > You're right, but the way I read it, it sounds
> > like you're saying the
> > > Spanish Paraguayos have all learned the language
> > of the tiny, stigmatized
> > > Guarani Indians.  I don't think that represents an
> > accurate picture.  I
> > > think it's more like this.  Back 500 years ago,
> > southern Brazil, Paraguay,
> > and
> > > northeastern Argentina, was Guarani speaking.
> > That came about because
> > there
> > > were very few men from the Iberian Peninsula, and
> > they intermarried with
> > the
> > > local Guarani.  Their children spoke Guarani.  You
> > can see that throughout
> > southern Brazil, because the placenames (named
> > > by the bandeirantes, the early Brazilian
> > explorers, goldseekers, slavers)
> > > are largely Guarani.  Over the centuries, likely
> > because of legislation
> > and more
> > > immigration, the sociolinguistic ecology changed,
> > and the majority Guarani
> > > speakers became Portuguese or Spanish speaking.
> > But Paraguay is like a
> > time capsule.  Paraguay 2004=Brasil 1704.  So the
> > history of Guarani in
> > Paraguay is unique.  The monolingual Guarani
> > speakers
> > > in Paraguay, the ones who have maintained their
> > identity as Indians, have
> > always been a
> > > different social group than the rest of the
> > Paraguayos.  The Indian
> > Guarani
> > > they speak is a different language than Paraguayan
> > Guarani.  These Indians
> > > did not mix with the Spanish hundreds of years
> > ago, and are not part of
> > > mainstream Paraguayo society.
> > >
> > > Stan
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Aurolyn Luykx" <aurolynluykx at yahoo.com>
> > > To: <lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu>
> > > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 11:14 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Guarani
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hello Stan,
> > > > just a note on your final comment on Guaraní.
> > > > Your final comment: "I think that rule of crass
> > > > materialism in Paraguay holds that Guarani
> > > > > speakers are bilingual in Spanish, not vice
> > versa"
> > > > is not quite accurate. Paraguay is in fact the
> > odd
> > > > case where the indigenous language has been
> > adopted as
> > > > a national language (though certainly a "B"
> > language,
> > > > in diglossic terms) by the non-indigenous
> > population.
> > > > Ethnic Guaranies are a distinct minority, and
> > the
> > > > relatively few monolingual Guarani speakers are
> > the
> > > > most marginalized of Paraguay's population.
> > > > Nevertheless the language is quite robust,
> > thriving in
> > > > its domestic functions among a mostly
> > non-indigenous
> > > > population.
> > > > Aurolyn Luykx
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Stan Anonby
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Nicholas Ostler"
> > > > > <nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk>
> > > > > To: <lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 7:21 PM
> > > > > Subject: Does language prestige correlate with
> > > > > community size?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > At 12:02 pm -0400 1/4/04, Stan & Sandy
> > Anonby
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >I guess "lesser languages" isn't a good
> > term.
> > > > > I'm open to suggestions...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Europe, it's common to use the term
> > "lesser
> > > > > used languages", as in
> > > > > > European Bureau for Lesser used Languages.
> > > > > "Minority languages" too
> > > > > > seems fairly objective.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >I've only worked for SIL for 2 1/2 years,
> > so I
> > > > > can't say my views are
> > > > > > >representative of the organization.  I've
> > > > > traveled quite a bit, though,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > >I've noticed the less prestigious groups
> > learn
> > > > > the language of the more
> > > > > > >prestigious ones.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This may be analytic, since the term
> > "prestige"
> > > > > characterizes the
> > > > > > tendency of the favoured group to attract
> > others
> > > > > to assimilate to it.
> > > > > > But greater population is not a universal
> > feature
> > > > > of such prestige
> > > > > > groups. And even dominant groups can look
> > outside
> > > > > themselves for the
> > > > > > source of the "true class".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >I haven't seen any examples to the
> > contrary.
> > > > > I've seen
> > > > > > >isolated individuals who learn smaller
> > languages,
> > > > > but it's pretty
> > > > > uncommon,
> > > > > > >I think.  Do you have any examples of
> > larger,
> > > > > dominant groups learning
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >language of the smaller groups?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Assyrians/Babylonians giving up Akkadian for
> > > > > Aramaic, from 8th
> > > > > > century BC; as a result, Akkadian, the
> > traditional
> > > > > language of the
> > > > > > ruling class, died out.
> > > > > > Romans using Greek throughout their Eastern
> > > > > Mediterranean empire,
> > > > > > from 2nd century BC on
> > > > > > Turkic conquerors in central Asia learning
> > Persian
> > > > > from 10th century,
> > > > > > indeed later transmitting it (as elite
> > language)
> > > > > to India (e.g. in
> > > > > > Mughal Empire)
> > > > > > Japanese courtiers affecting Chinese in
> > 8th-11th
> > > > > centuries (in
> > > > > > writing at least).
> > > > > > Elite learners of Greek in Western Europe
> > since
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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