printability and standardization

Fri Jan 9 23:11:40 UTC 2004

Aurolyn L (what lge is your last name?)
    Brown, B. 1993. The social consequences of writing Louisiana French. In
Lin S, 22.67-101. You'll find more references in her bibliography. A Fraser
Gupta has an article on Singapore in JMMD (I think) with a title like "When
mother tongue instruction is not ?the best choice?" within the last 5 years.
They'll lead you to others. Christina
PS No one has ever claimed that it is not easier to learn to read in one's
mother tongue. The point is children can also - even if it takes longer -
learn to read in a second language or dialect and when the social
circumstances are compelling, it may be a better alternative. Vide the
Ebonics affair a few years back. Would any of you white linguists really
want to argue that your superior linguistic knowledge gives you the right to
argue with inner city Black parents that their children should learn to read
in AAVE -- Samy Alim might but then he is not a white linguist and has that
right; I don't think we do.

----------
>From: Aurolyn Luykx <aurolynluykx at yahoo.com>
>To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
>Subject: Re: printability and standardization
>Date: Fri, Jan 9, 2004, 11:38 AM
>

> Christina P.:
> Can you provide the full reference for Brown, and some
> others regarding the negative attitudinal effects of
> standardizing vernaculars for use in bilingual ed.?
> Kendall King's book on Ecuadorian Quichua gives
> another example of same.
> Thanks,
> Aurolyn Luykx
>
> ... The literature on bilingual education (eg
>> Brown's dissertation on LA
>> French-English) is full of examples of the negative
>> effect on dialect
>> attitudes by putting a written, standardized version
>> of the dialect into the
>> classroom (to normal people, not linguists) - that
>> was my intended
>> reference.
>> But I expect that no one contributing to this
>> discussion really knows what
>> the reaction is of the Ladin speaking population
>> itself. I respectfully
>> submit we should find out before we go on any
>> further. Christina Paulston
>>
>> ----------
>> >From: Joshua Fishman <joshuaafishman at yahoo.com>
>> >To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
>> >Subject: Re: printability and standardization
>> >Date: Wed, Jan 7, 2004, 3:09 PM
>> >
>>
>> > And of course, there is standardization in
>> > non-literate (oral) cultures! JAF
>> >
>> > --- "Harold F. Schiffman"
>> > <haroldfs at ccat.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:
>> >> Thank you, Joshua, for reminding us that
>> >> standardization and print are separate issues.
>> > I have tried to make that case for 'standard'
>> > Spoken Tamil, which doesn't often appear in
>> > print, since literary Tamil (with extreme
>> > diglossic differences) serves that purpose.
>> > People who work in western linguistic traditions
>> > tend to think that print equals standardization,
>> > and nothing else matters.
>> >> Sanskrit developed a method of
>> >> controlling 'standard' without resorting to
>> >> print, and other languages can
>> >> do the same.
>> >>
>> >> My article on this is ``Standardization and
>> >> Restandardization: the case of
>> >> Spoken Tamil." Language in Society, Vol. 27 (3)
>> >> 359-385. (1998)  and it's
>> >> also available on my website at
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/public/stantam/STANTAM.HTM
>> >>
>> >> Hal Schiffman
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, Joshua Fishman wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > The discussion of (non-)Standardization of
>> >> Ladin
>> >> > and the "reluctance" of the Italian
>> >> government to
>> >> > utilize it in print should remind us that
>> >> print
>> >> > and standardization are quite separate and
>> >> > independent of each other. Many languages
>> >> have
>> >> > been printed (and, of course, also written)
>> >> far
>> >> > before their standardization and, indeed,
>> >> their
>> >> > use in print contributed greatly to their
>> >> > ultimate standardization (viz. D-B Kerler
>> >> 2003).
>> >> > Of course, standardization did not rescue
>> >> Latin,
>> >> > Greek, Hebrew, etc. from disappearing as
>> >> > vernaculars. It would be particularly
>> >> > "indelicate" for the Italian government to
>> >> snub
>> >> > Ladin due to Ladin's lack of full
>> >> > standardization, given the lack of full
>> >> > standardization of Italian to this very day.
>> >> > English too is far from being fully
>> >> standardized,
>> >> > which should lead most of us to be rather
>> >> less
>> >> > dismissive of Ladin for this same very human
>> >> > "failing". All in all, "complete
>> >> standardization"
>> >> > is a will-of-the-whisp and some small
>> >> languages
>> >> > are far closer to this goal (acting on the
>> >> > mistaken assumption that it will promote
>> >> their
>> >> > acceptance) than much larger ones who
>> >> couldn't
>> >> > care less. Joshua A. Fishman
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > =====
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
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