purification & pidginization

[Felicia Briscoe]

I hate to sound ignorant, but what is the difference between pidginization
and creolization?

-----Original Message-----
From: Aurolyn Luykx [mailto:aurolynluykx at yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 3:55 PM
To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Subject: Re: purification & pidginization


Stan,
My own feeling (though not based on any actual
research of my own!) is that (indigenous) dialects
with a high degree of loanwords from the LWC are even
more likely to eventually be edged out by the LWC
itself, than are dialects that show less influence of
this sort. But I suspect that other factors are more
important, since I have the idea (again, I'm not sure
from where) than Navajo doesn't use many English
loanwords, and is declining nonetheless. As to whether
such a process is actually a step toward
pidginization, you might check out Dorian's book
"Investigating Obsolescence."
Personally, I'd consider this to be creolization
rather than pidginization. In the Andes there's quite
a spectrum of Spanish-influenced dialects of Quechua
(and Aymara), as well as Quechua- (and Aymara-)
influenced dialects of Spanish, which are in fact the
mother tongue of most of those who speak them
(pidgins, by definition, are not). Dale Stratford,
Lucy Briggs, Ana Maria Escobar, and others have
described some of them.
A.L.

--- Stan & Sandy Anonby <stan-sandy_anonby at sil.org>
wrote:
> I have recently run into a few examples of language
> what is trumpeted as
> "language
> purity", which sounds pretty close to
> standardization to me.  I'm thinking
> of several languages SIL is working with in Brazil
> and elsewhere.  One of
> the effects of translating a corpus of material is
> the "purification" of the
> language.  When translating and writing a
> dictionary, the people become
> aware of the fact that they are using say, both
> Guarani and
> Portuguese words in everyday speech, and they opt
> for the Guarani words in
> the translation and dictionary.  What follows is an
> effort to purge everyday
> speech from Portuguese loanwords.  This is perceived
> as good for
> strengthening the language.
>
> I think it might have the opposite effect.  That is,
> it inhibits the younger
> people from speaking the language, for fear of
> speaking incorrectly.  Of
> course, using a whole lot of Portuguese loanwords
> can't be all that great
> for a language either.  Can't that lead to a sort of
> pidgin, and then to a
> shift to the LWC?
>
> Stan Anonby
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aurolyn Luykx" <aurolynluykx at yahoo.com>
> To: <lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu>; "Kendall
> King"
> <akk25 at georgetown.edu>
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 1:07 PM
> Subject: Re: printability and standardization
>
>
> > King's argument is rather complex, but to briefly
> > summarize part of it here, she reports that the
> > successful standardization of Quichua and its
> > incorporation into schooling has indirectly led to
> an
> > even greater stigmatization and avoidance of
> > pre-existing non-standard dialects. Also that
> while
> > the standardized Quichua has gained some ground in
> > symbolic contexts, it continues to lose ground in
> > functions that are communicatively more important
> on a
> > day-to-day basis. Admittedly, it may be hard to
> get
> > worked up over prestige hierarchies between
> different
> > dialects within an indigenous language, when the
> more
> > immediate problem is that rapid disappearance of
> so
> > many languages altogether, but I'd argue that the
> two
> > issues are not unrelated. In other words, policies
> > meant to strengthen indigenous languages may
> > indirectly contribute to their demise, via
> unintended
> > ideological effects that elevate a new standard
> which
> > few people speak and denigrate more widespread
> > (non-standard) dialects. One more reason why it's
> just
> > as important for linguists to study their own
> > ideologies as those of "common speakers." And to
> > recall that parents' language choices for their
> > children are always embedded in these shifting
> > ideological sands. Kendall, care to weigh in on
> any of
> > this?
> > Aurolyn
> > p.s. to Stan -- certainly the isolation of many
> > indigenous groups is what has helped their
> languages
> > survive as long as they have. In Bolivia,
> bilingual
> > education will now make schooling accessible to so
> > many more indigenous children who were previously
> > marginalized from it, but that very act of
> bringing
> > them into the educational fold will most likely
> lead
> > many or most of them to abandon the indigenous
> > language, eventually.
> >
> > --- Stan & Sandy Anonby
> <stan-sandy_anonby at sil.org>
> > wrote:
> > > I'd like to read King.  I haven't, so I might be
> off
> > > base, but aren't stratification,
> sociogeographical
> > > isolation, and disparities forces which help
> > > maintain languages and cultures?  If these
> problems
> > > didn't exist in Brazil, my feeling is that all
> the
> > > Indian communities would've switched to
> Portuguese
> > > by now.  I don't know the sociolinguistic
> dynamic in
> > > Ecuador and I think it's great that indigenous
> > > people there have won a political place in the
> > > wording of the constitution.  However, I wonder
> how
> > > much Quechua is really benefiting from this
> Indian
> > > zeitgeist.   If the situation is like Brazil,
> then I
> > > would bet that the Indians who were instrumental
> in
> > > bringing about these political changes do not
> speak
> > > their Indian languages well, if at all.  I don't
> > > doubt all this has had a positive
> > > social-psychological effect on minority children
> and
> > > within their communities, but does this mean
> they
> > > are speaking more Quechua?
> > >
> > > Stan
> > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: Rachel Reynolds
> > >   To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
> > >   Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 7:16 AM
> > >   Subject: RE: printability and standardization
> > >
> > >
> > >   I am wondering why no one has quite mentioned
> that
> > > language is just a single part of the
> ethnic/racial
> > > stratification scene in the United States (and
> > > elsewhere).  There is only so much that
> educating
> > > people about language can accomplish when race
> > > relations have a lot to do also with clean water
> > > supplies, prison, health care disparities
> (Christina
> > > mentioned this!), sociogeographical isolation of
> the
> > > poor, the impetus towards empire, enduring and
> > > changing commercialization of black bodies and
> > > sounds, etc. etc. etc.   The efficacy of
> language
> > > consciousness education depends of course on
> > > historical and cultural contexts of other forms
> of
> > > consciousness raising and the ethnic/class
> struggle
> > > (i.e. timing is everything).  Someone mentioned
> > > Kendall King's book earlier on Quechua,
> > > standardization and the classroom where, for
> > > example, in the introduction King points out
> that
> > > her ethnography takes place in a setting where
> > > indigenous people in Ecuador had just won a
> > > political place in the wording of the
> constitution
> > > and that the wide ranging effects of this will
> have
> > > mattered at a more pervasive level than the
> efforts
> > > of a single educational consortium.
> Nonetheless,
> > > this educational consortium arose at the time of
> > > political change and was probably more effective
> > > because of its correlation with the zeitgeist.
> (that
> > > last part is me talking, not necessarily King
> whose
> > > book I do not presently have by my side).
> That's
> > > related to why King concludes that language
> > > revitalization may not necessarily fully
> reinstate
> > > languages within all domains, but that it has a
> > > positive social-psychological effect on minority
> > > children and within their communities. (again, I
> > > hope I've summarized that accurately).
> > >
> > >   Wasn't it Marvin Harris who points out that
> > > changing superstructural concerns from the top,
> like
> > > language and its ideologies, have less
> likelihood of
> > > affecting the infrastructure or the structure of
> a
> > > social group?  While changes form the base, in
> the
>
=== message truncated ===


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